The abortion issue

[jgh7]

This is my first time adding a poll, so hopefully it works

I notice that the issue of gay marriage is a hot topic on these forums, but people tend to skirt around abortion... Gee, I wonder why? Here's a poll, please choose one of the options even if you feel that you're "special" to the point of where none of these options describes you. Please keep in mind, This has to do only with pregnancies that are not the result of rape, are not a danger to the mother's life, and with fetuses that will not have grossly severe deformities or disabilities. I have opinions about each of these special circumstances, but I would like this topic to be about the overwhelming majority of pregnancies which don't have these problems.

Obviously you can voice your stance as well, and feel free to talk about your opinions of how religion relates to all of this... or how it shouldn't. Here's mine:

For me, my strong views about abortion coincide highly with my religious views, but I developed them before I became religious. I view life as sacred from the moment of conception. I don't care if the zef (zygote/embryo/fetus) can think, I don't care how he looks, I don't care if the mother-to-be is a teenager or not, and I don't care about the impact on society. All I care about is the zef's life, and how I define life is not based off of cognitive abilities, development of vital organs, or ability to survive outside the womb. Life is about having a future on this earth. Many people say it's no big deal because there are so many early miscarriages that we don't even realize happen, but that is an awful reason to justify the purposeful destruction of life.

The main pro-choice argument is that the mother has a right to choose since it's her body. I strongly disagree. In the cases of voluntary sex, people know the risks; even when they use protection they know there's still a risk. Even if they don't know the risks, that still does not justify killing the zef because of their ignorance. Even in the worst case scenario, where the mother is a teenager and dirt poor, I strongly believe that abortion is wrong. Life is sacred to the point of where both parents ought to be willing to sacrifice their monetary well-being as well as their personal lives/time/aspirations for the sake of letting their child live.

My faith strengthens my stance, and I'm not ashamed to admit that the only way I could feel so strongly is through my faith. After all, with a non-theistic view it's pretty easy to view life as insignificant if it's a tiny spec that doesn't think and doesn't look anything like a baby. I understand many will be offended by this, but I've seen that this is the case for many non-theists.

The final argument that usually arises is: "Isn't using protection the same as abortion, since you're preventing sperm from entering the egg?" I believe we have the right to choose when we want to create life, but we don't have the right to choose to destroy that life once it has been created. I may not know the precise time down to the second, but somewhere during the moment of conception, life is created. A sperm will not grow into a baby, and neither will an egg; only a fertilized egg. All that is left after conception is less than a year of growing until the life is born. Using protection is no more abortion than is choosing not to have sex for a certain night. Both cases mean that sperm that could have fertilized an egg was prevented from doing so. But destroying a fertilized egg is abortion, because it is killing off a human life that is growing.

These are my views. I know there are many points where people can disagree, but abortion is one thing where I have a very strong stance on, since I believe it is killing. When people are lax on their stances and say things like, "It's only for mothers to decide," it usually means that they don't view the zef as a life.

[Goat]

Unborn babies are not alive

According to biology there are four basic qualifications that must be met in order to be considered alive. A baby fits all five qualifications even before it is born.

All life forms contain deoxyribonucleic (dee ahk' see rye boh noo klay' ik) acid, which is called DNA.

All life forms have a method by which they extract energy from the surroundings and convert it into energy that sustains them.

All life forms can sense changes in their surroundings and respond to those changes.

All life forms reproduce.

A fetus is not yet a person

[scottlittlefield17]

A fetus is not yet a person

What defines a person?

[Goat]

A fetus is not yet a person

What defines a person?

Ahh... there is the rub... What does? In my opinion when you have a living , breathing human who is able to respond to it's environment.

[scottlittlefield17]

I established that it is alive. So what you are saying is that it is totally up to me what I define as a human. So if I say that child-molester is not a human because no "human" would do something like that, am I justified in shooting him. (Is that a straw man argument or is it just following through with the logic used? Could you answer that Mclluoh?)

[Treefur]

Even if you do define life as the instant the sperm enters the egg I don't think it should be relevant.
Because we already have established rights for people who are already alive.
Why do you think the mother's life should be forfeit for a child not yet born?

If we found out tapeworms were sentient, would you not extract them from people's intestines because they deserve life more than the person?

I don't think abortions should be allowed if there isn't a good enough reason. Most important is the health of the mother. But we have too many abandoned children in this world as it is. Too many orphans.
Abortion in certain circumstances, is the moral course of action. Otherwise it could easily be irresponsible.

[scottlittlefield17]

It is understood by general man that human life is more valuable than a tapeworm. Now the mother arguement, who calls the shots as to whether a mother is in danger? The doctor I would assume, right? What about my first point.

[Treefur]

Would you have a problem with a medical opinion on the health of a mother being threatened?

For instance, if you had abortion outlawed, would a 13 year old child that was raped and impregnated be forced to carry to term?

[Goat]

It is understood by general man that human life is more valuable than a tapeworm. Now the mother arguement, who calls the shots as to whether a mother is in danger? The doctor I would assume, right?

Partly. the woman still has the final say, unless she is in a coma, and incapable. Then it is up to the spouse or guardian to make the final decision.

There was a case where a husband had to choose between an abortion for his wife to increase the chances of her survival after a car accident, or risk her dying. He was criticized by the right to life people because he chose the abortion to give his wife the best chance for survival. She lived, and said he made the right choice,.

[Treefur]

It is understood by general man that human life is more valuable than a tapeworm.

And according to this same understanding, adults have far more rights than children.
It's all about established rights. And a woman, an adult, with formed mental capacity, has more rights than a clump of zygotes.
Same as you would destroy the theoretical sentient intelligent tapeworm to save the mother.

[scottlittlefield17]

For instance, if you had abortion outlawed, would a 13 year old child that was raped and impregnated be forced to carry to term?

I do believe that thirteen year old girl should carry to term. If she does not want the child then there are adoption and foster care options. I don't believe she has any more right to kill the baby than to kill the rapist who abused her. I consider the rapist less of human than that baby.

And according to this same understanding, adults have far more rights than children.

I am sorry Treefur but I would have to disagree with that statement. If you know the law it children have many more rights than adults. In fact in Romania they are pushing hard if the parents do not provide the children with the option of TV ect, the children can be taken from the parents. If you are under eighteen in the USA you have much more protection than adults do.

And a woman, an adult, with formed mental capacity, has more rights than a clump of zygotes.

Very true, however that same woman also has much, much more mental capacity than a one month old baby. Does that mean that they can be killed? In fact does that mean that a ten year old can be killed if the mother sees it necessary based upon the improved mental capacity of a grown woman.