What did jesus say he about himself?

[muhammad rasullah]

Many debates have been held concerning the divinity of jesus and who in reality Jesus was. Now the first logical thing one should is determine what did jesus say about himself? Who did jesus say he was? Did he claim to be God or not? Or did he claim something different? What I truly want to ask those who say and believe that jesus is God is if he ever said such a thing?

Of course this should be easy to find about someone so prominent in history. If he is God then he had to have claimed it somewhere because that would seem to be God's very nature.

So here is the debate, what did jesus say about himself? Did he say he was God or did others raise him to that status? Or did he simply say something different? I assume Jesus would know about himself better than others.

[MagusYanam]

So what is it that you believe? Do you believe Jesus died on the cross by crucifixtion? If he didn't die for your sins then what is the point of him being on the cross?

The ultimate act of prophecy. The worst weapon the powers of empire could bring to bear on Jesus was death - the Cross. Jesus knew that his teachings - of a 'upside-down kingdom' of social justice brought about by nonviolent self-sacrifice and protest against empire - would ultimately lead him to the Cross. Jesus showed us exactly what it meant to follow him: to risk betrayal, alienation, humiliation and death at the hands of those who profit by exploitation.

I don't hold by an over-spiritualised theology of the atonement; I'm much more of an Abaelardian that way. I dare not speak for you on this matter, kayky, but if you do not believe in substitutionary atonement, you might find a lot more to agree with in Abaelard.

If the day of judgment is never going to happen then what is the point in trying to do good over bad?

The day of judgment has already happened - when Pilate sentenced Christ to die. On that day the powers of empire were tried and found wanting against the way of Jesus, the Human One. All that follows will be judged by that standard as we continue trying to bring about the kingdom of heaven on earth.

[muhammad rasullah]

So what is it that you believe? Do you believe Jesus died on the cross by crucifixtion? If he didn't die for your sins then what is the point of him being on the cross?

The ultimate act of prophecy. The worst weapon the powers of empire could bring to bear on Jesus was death - the Cross. Jesus knew that his teachings - of a 'upside-down kingdom' of social justice brought about by nonviolent self-sacrifice and protest against empire - would ultimately lead him to the Cross. Jesus showed us exactly what it meant to follow him: to risk betrayal, alienation, humiliation and death at the hands of those who profit by exploitation.

I don't hold by an over-spiritualised theology of the atonement; I'm much more of an Abaelardian that way. I dare not speak for you on this matter, kayky, but if you do not believe in substitutionary atonement, you might find a lot more to agree with in Abaelard.

If the day of judgment is never going to happen then what is the point in trying to do good over bad?

The day of judgment has already happened - when Pilate sentenced Christ to die. On that day the powers of empire were tried and found wanting against the way of Jesus, the Human One. All that follows will be judged by that standard as we continue trying to bring about the kingdom of heaven on earth.

Sorry but I'm lost...In my reading of the bible Jesus didn't want to be crucified in the garden of gethsemane he wept crying to God to save him. that doesn't sound like a man who knows what his fate will be...neither is it an example of someone willing to die either.

By the day of judgment I am referring to the day when this world will no longer exist everyone will be brought back to stand before God and account for the wrong they commited in this life and it will then be determined whether a person will reach paradise of hell. This is the day of judgment.

This has not occured.
What is this "Jesus the Human one". There is only one Jesus. There is only a human Jesus because that's all he was.

Acts 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Jesus peace be upon him was a man as the bible states and the quran affirms...
5:75 (Y. Ali) Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

The quran affirms that Jesus was a man and a prophet and messenger of God not God incarnate. The example is that Jesus ate food just as his mother did and all me do.
Luke 24:42 and they gave him a piece of broilfish and honeycomb
43 and he took it and he ate before them.

Does God eat broilfish and honeycomb?

Acts 2:22 miracles and signs which God did by him...
Quran affirms this as well...
3:49 yusuf Ali .....and I shall heal the blind and the leper, and bring the dead back to life by God's leave;
John 5:30 I can of mine ownself do nothing...because I seek not mine own will but the will of the father that sent me.

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father;
Not from myself. not from jesus...

[kayky]

So what is it that you believe? Do you believe Jesus died on the cross by crucifixtion? If he didn't die for your sins then what is the point of him being on the cross?

Historically speaking, Jesus was on the cross because the Romans wanted him there. Spiritually speaking, the cross symbolizes our own need for the self-generated ego to die so that we can be reborn in God (resurrection).

There is very much evidence to believe that this didn't happen historically there are no records held by the romans which show evidence of this event. This event surrounding Jesus is an historical occurance, if this crucifixtion did place surely the romans would have recorded it.

I'm sure there are lots of records that are now lost to us. Paul, a contemporary of Jesus, said that Jesus was crucified. That's pretty strong evidence that it did happen.

If the day of judgment is never going to happen then what is the point in trying to do good over bad? Do you believe that there is a hereafter without any reckoning to determine where someone will go paradise or hell? it will help a lot if you established what you believe about the subject of crucifixtion, the day of judgment and the hereafter i.e. life after death? How do you believe this is going to take place exactly?

Making bad choices brings suffering into your own life and the lives of others.

I do not know if there is an afterlife or not. If there is one, I have no idea what it will be like.

[Heterodoxus]

The OP asked --

Did jesus[sic] say he was God or a prophet sent by God?

Neither. He knew that some people thought he was Elijah or another Jewish prophet (Luke 9:19). Or, that some people, like Peter, thought Jesus might be the long-anticipated Jewish Messiah come to vanquish the Roman authorities in Israel (Luke 9:20). He also acknowledged that Pilate thought that Jesus was the "King of the Jews" (Luke 23:1-4) as erroneously charged by the religious leaders of his time and place.

He did not, however, neither state nor imply that he was in fact the supreme "God" (YHVH/Jehovah) or the Messiah of Israel and Christians. Recall that he "commanded them [his disciples] to tell no man that thing" (Luke 9:21).

And, if actions really do speak louder than words, recall too that --

When Jesus therefore perceived that they [the people] would come and take him by force, to make him a king [i.e., their king-like Messiah], he departed ....

[crescentteam]

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[InTheFlesh]

Muhammad wrote:

Sorry but I'm lost...In my reading of the bible Jesus didn't want to be crucified in the garden of gethsemane he wept crying to God to save him. that doesn't sound like a man who knows what his fate will be...neither is it an example of someone willing to die either.

By the day of judgment I am referring to the day when this world will no longer exist everyone will be brought back to stand before God and account for the wrong they commited in this life and it will then be determined whether a person will reach paradise of hell. This is the day of judgment.

This has not occured.
What is this "Jesus the Human one". There is only one Jesus. There is only a human Jesus because that's all he was.

Acts 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Jesus peace be upon him was a man as the bible states and the quran affirms...
5:75 (Y. Ali) Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

The quran affirms that Jesus was a man and a prophet and messenger of God not God incarnate. The example is that Jesus ate food just as his mother did and all me do.
Luke 24:42 and they gave him a piece of broilfish and honeycomb
43 and he took it and he ate before them.

Does God eat broilfish and honeycomb?

Acts 2:22 miracles and signs which God did by him...
Quran affirms this as well...
3:49 yusuf Ali .....and I shall heal the blind and the leper, and bring the dead back to life by God's leave;
John 5:30 I can of mine ownself do nothing...because I seek not mine own will but the will of the father that sent me.

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father;
Not from myself. not from jesus...

Jesus performs the works of God.
The word of God is found at the mouth of Jesus.
You say Jesus is only human,
but what other human you know has no beginning?