What belifs make a Christain?

[Donray]

For me to ask a question in another topic I need to understand what beliefs a Christain must have to be called a Christian.

From my understanding in using this board, several online religious course, and my
knowledge on the bible I have come to the following:

There are only two beliefs that all Christians must have:

1: That Mary was a virgin and God created a baby in her.
2: Jesus was crucified and rose from bring dead.

It does matter if you think the bible is 100% true or 100% stories and myths.
It does not matter if ware magic underwear or not.
It does not matter if you are baptized or not.
It does not matter if your gay or not.
It does not matter what rituals you perform.
It does not matter if you belong to one of thousand Christain cults and main religions.
It does not matter if you pray or attend a church.

Nothing else matters.

Am I correct?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 91 by onewithhim]

No, the definition of a Christian is one who follows Christ, and Christ was very specific about how we must also love his Father, God. If one doesn't believe in God, how can he truly be a Christian?

That's your POV/definition, but it may not be for everyone.
Which is the point.
How can that be?
Because Christianity is a belief system. It's not a race, genetic indicator, etc. It's basically a club of people with shared (not the same) belief.
Some don't consider JWs and Mormons Christian, but they consider themselves Christian.
It's not as cut-n-dry as people like to try to make.

It really is. Christ-following Christians know that they must all be of one mind and in agreement.

"Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." (I Corinthians 1:10)

It's rather easy to figure out who the true Christians are. They are the ones that actually do what Christ commanded. For example: (1) Who do not join any military institution of ANY nation? ("I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." [Matthew 5:44) (2) Who do not get involved in the world's politics, but stay neutral? (Jesus said: "They [his disciples] are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." [John 17:16]) (3) Who go door to door just like Jesus taught his disciples to do, bringing the message of the good news of the Kingdom? ("This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." [Matt.24:14])

True Christians aren't like Mormons in ANY way, and they aren't like mainline churches. Mormons go out to talk to people, but do they talk about God's Kingdom? NO. Some other churches go out occasionally, but there is no concerted effort, and it is sporadic. ALL of them will support the nation's military, and they ALL get involved to some degree in politics. Why is it impossible to know real Christians?

A good question.
Do Christians have a Christian version of gay-dar? Can they tell who is or isn't a Christian in the same room without interacting with them?
Some sort of mental link? Feeling of an energy?

Or is there a mental check list Christians have that they check off when they meet someone?

Or is that all too 'new age' for them?

A person might be able to tell if a person is gay, but JWs don't judge them as goats. We treat them like anyone else. We will not even decide if they are gay or not until we interact with them. Sometimes I have been wrong. I don't really know what you mean by a check-list, and I'm not sure of your point.



.

[onewithhim]

Donray posted:

(quote)There are only two beliefs that all Christians must have:

1: That Mary was a virgin and God created a baby in her.
2: Jesus was crucified and rose from bring dead. (quote)

RESPONSE:

Precisely what historical evidence do you have that either occurred?

Or are they stories written 40 - 65 years after such "events" by non-witnesses?

There, you're saying the same things over again after you have been apprised of the fact that the N.T was written mostly by people who knew Jesus. Why do you keep saying the writings were of people who didn't know him? Many of them went through trialsome times with Jesus. Peter, Matthew, John, James, Jude (two of whom were Jesus' brothers).


.

[onewithhim]

Donray posted:

(quote)There are only two beliefs that all Christians must have:

1: That Mary was a virgin and God created a baby in her.
2: Jesus was crucified and rose from bring dead. (quote)

RESPONSE:

Precisely what historical evidence do you have that either occurred?

Or are they stories written 40 - 65 years after such "events" by non-witnesses?

You don't need any proof for a belief. You simply accept something facts or no.

That is true, but there are some beliefs that are true. I believe that the sun shines every day, and that is true. I believe that Jesus influenced mankind like no other man in history, and that is true. He was either the Son of God sent from above or he was a crazy liar, and that is true. I will accept that he was the Son of God.


.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 94 by Menotu]

So, what is the answer then? Where do we look for the definition of Christian? It has a source somewhere, doesn't it? Doesn't the source from where the word came from get to determine what the word means? If it is able to be changed from what the source determined it to mean, who has that authority? Who gave you the right to give your own definition for the word? Or did you just assume you can make it mean whatever you want?

Larry says he's a Christian. I say he's not. Now what? What happens?

Does Larry have to change to fit my definition? He might, but that's highly unlikely. Should he change? Depends on who is asked, I suspect.

While most would say something like 'a Christian is a believer in Jesus that follows his teachings', not everyone may agree to that. This sounds silly, but Christianity is a individualized belief system.

The answer is, as far as I can see it, irrelevant because no matter what definition you or I may adhere to (or think others should use), someone else may not.
And for them, what you or I say likely doesn't matter because their Christian life is theirs and theirs alone.

Yet the word was made at some point. Larry didn't make up the definition did he? Who did? What is the source of the word? Who were the first ones to carry that title, Christian? Was it Larry? From the point of view from God is the answer really irrelevant? If it does or doesn't matter how can we tell? Do we have anything that can answer these questions?

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 91 by onewithhim]

No, the definition of a Christian is one who follows Christ, and Christ was very specific about how we must also love his Father, God. If one doesn't believe in God, how can he truly be a Christian?

That's your POV/definition, but it may not be for everyone.
Which is the point.
How can that be?
Because Christianity is a belief system. It's not a race, genetic indicator, etc. It's basically a club of people with shared (not the same) belief.
Some don't consider JWs and Mormons Christian, but they consider themselves Christian.
It's not as cut-n-dry as people like to try to make.

It really is. Christ-following Christians know that they must all be of one mind and in agreement.

"Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." (I Corinthians 1:10)

It's rather easy to figure out who the true Christians are. They are the ones that actually do what Christ commanded. For example: (1) Who do not join any military institution of ANY nation? ("I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." [Matthew 5:44) (2) Who do not get involved in the world's politics, but stay neutral? (Jesus said: "They [his disciples] are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." [John 17:16]) (3) Who go door to door just like Jesus taught his disciples to do, bringing the message of the good news of the Kingdom? ("This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." [Matt.24:14])

True Christians aren't like Mormons in ANY way, and they aren't like mainline churches. Mormons go out to talk to people, but do they talk about God's Kingdom? NO. Some other churches go out occasionally, but there is no concerted effort, and it is sporadic. ALL of them will support the nation's military, and they ALL get involved to some degree in politics. Why is it impossible to know real Christians?

A good question.
Do Christians have a Christian version of gay-dar? Can they tell who is or isn't a Christian in the same room without interacting with them?
Some sort of mental link? Feeling of an energy?

Or is there a mental check list Christians have that they check off when they meet someone?

Or is that all too 'new age' for them?

A person might be able to tell if a person is gay, but JWs don't judge them as goats. We treat them like anyone else. We will not even decide if they are gay or not until we interact with them. Sometimes I have been wrong. I don't really know what you mean by a check-list, and I'm not sure of your point.



.

By checklist I mean a mental checklist; things you notice, observations made, feelings, that tell you someone is 'this or that' that goes through your mind during an interaction.

Some people can meet someone and get a 'feeling' about them that they're a good person. Or see someone acting strangely in a store and say to themselves "that person's gonna' steal that!"

[2timothy316]

By checklist I mean a mental checklist; things you notice, observations made, feelings, that tell you someone is 'this or that' that goes through your mind during an interaction.

Some people can meet someone and get a 'feeling' about them that they're a good person. Or see someone acting strangely in a store and say to themselves "that person's gonna' steal that!"

I had a supervisor that would get these 'feelings' about people of a particular color. Oddly enough, they also had bad feelings toward little people. Which I found very strange.

In my multiple decades of life, I have found feeling does not make for a good rule of judgement. Sometimes it can be right but when it's wrong it is tough to live with. There are people in prison this very moment that were wrongly sentenced based on 'feeling'. In addressing these 'feelings' I have found it has been better to let a criminal go unpunished than to condemn an innocent man.

When you have the feeling a person is about to steal something, does that mean there are automatically a bad person? Are they starving? Perhaps they are trying to feed someone else that is starving. Maybe it's a young person that is under the influence of so-called friends. Rather than going straight to the conclusion, 'that person is evil', we could invoke the thought of agape love. 1 Corinthians 13:7 says that love hopes all things. Perhaps we can hope that the offender doesn't want to do bad first because of a bad turn in circumstances before we stamp them on the chest as rotten at heart.

Long story short, beware of these self-made 'checklists'. There are 7.53 billion people on the Earth, imagine all of them with their own 'checklist' and how many would put you on their checklist simply because of how they feel about people with your skin color, religion you are part of, or what country you live in.

I personally think that no one is fated to be a bad person. Anyone can turn back to the good as set by not my checklist but the Bible's checklist. No one is condemned until Jesus Christ condemns them and I happily bow to his judgement. However, do not mistake warning people of a bad course with condemning a person. If you see someone about to steal something you are within your right to warn the person of the possible consequences of their course.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 91 by onewithhim]

No, the definition of a Christian is one who follows Christ, and Christ was very specific about how we must also love his Father, God. If one doesn't believe in God, how can he truly be a Christian?

That's your POV/definition, but it may not be for everyone.
Which is the point.
How can that be?
Because Christianity is a belief system. It's not a race, genetic indicator, etc. It's basically a club of people with shared (not the same) belief.
Some don't consider JWs and Mormons Christian, but they consider themselves Christian.
It's not as cut-n-dry as people like to try to make.

It really is. Christ-following Christians know that they must all be of one mind and in agreement.

"Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." (I Corinthians 1:10)

It's rather easy to figure out who the true Christians are. They are the ones that actually do what Christ commanded. For example: (1) Who do not join any military institution of ANY nation? ("I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." [Matthew 5:44) (2) Who do not get involved in the world's politics, but stay neutral? (Jesus said: "They [his disciples] are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world." [John 17:16]) (3) Who go door to door just like Jesus taught his disciples to do, bringing the message of the good news of the Kingdom? ("This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come." [Matt.24:14])

True Christians aren't like Mormons in ANY way, and they aren't like mainline churches. Mormons go out to talk to people, but do they talk about God's Kingdom? NO. Some other churches go out occasionally, but there is no concerted effort, and it is sporadic. ALL of them will support the nation's military, and they ALL get involved to some degree in politics. Why is it impossible to know real Christians?

A good question.
Do Christians have a Christian version of gay-dar? Can they tell who is or isn't a Christian in the same room without interacting with them?
Some sort of mental link? Feeling of an energy?

Or is there a mental check list Christians have that they check off when they meet someone?

Or is that all too 'new age' for them?

A person might be able to tell if a person is gay, but JWs don't judge them as goats. We treat them like anyone else. We will not even decide if they are gay or not until we interact with them. Sometimes I have been wrong. I don't really know what you mean by a check-list, and I'm not sure of your point.



.

By checklist I mean a mental checklist; things you notice, observations made, feelings, that tell you someone is 'this or that' that goes through your mind during an interaction.

Some people can meet someone and get a 'feeling' about them that they're a good person. Or see someone acting strangely in a store and say to themselves "that person's gonna' steal that!"

Oh, ok. What goes through my mind during an interaction......(1) how the person talks (there is a certain way up-front gays talk that is characteristic of gay people, though on, perhaps, a much reduced scale); (2) how some people walk; it's obvious on some people; (3) certain gestures with hands.....that's all I can think of. But, again, we withhold any overt opinion until they let us know themselves that they are gay . We don't judge them in any case.

So what is your point?


.

[Donray]

[Replying to post 99 by polonius]

I don't think either occurred. I am trying to find out what is a Christain and what must ALL Christians belive to be a Christain.

For example all Muslims belive hat Mohamad was a profit and the Koran came from god.

So far the only thing I got is that only JWs are true Christians and anyone that believes in the trinity is not a Christain.

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 108 by Donray]

Donray,

You won't get a straight answer. I'd say every Christian would have to follow the Teachings of Christ, but the Catholic Church says they have the authority of Christ to override their own Messiah.

But by proxy, the title of being a Christian, going in the name and authority of Christ, if a person calls themselves a Christ-ian, then it would stand to reason, they follow what He taught. They do what He did. They hold to His teachings and they live their lives according to the precepts he taught.

The problem is that most people don't really want to do that. So they redefine the whole ball of wax into the shape and texture they can live with.

Personally, I find in reading the Bible, God deals in realities and not vain imaginations. But this is a world where one can look like a man and insist every call him, her.

So, there's that.

Soj

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 53 by Divine Insight]

However, I think it's fair to point out the logical flaws in the claims of this dogma.

And the logical flaw is the simple fact that if man is an incomplete creation then he cannot be blamed for being in that predicament. That could only be the fault of his creator for not having created man completely in the first place.

So the problem with this kind of dogma is that it has a creator who creates mankind with flaws and then tries to pin the blame for those flaws onto the men who were created incomplete in the first place.

Therefore this dogma contains extreme flaws. In other words, the "apologies" that the dogma itself tries to create are logically flawed.

Surely when discussing Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma questions concerning the logical consistency of the Theology, Doctrine, or Dogma should be within the scope of consideration.

A God who creates men who are incomplete has no business blaming the men for being incomplete. Nor could it be their fault.

So we have a theology here that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's making accusations toward men that simply don't hold water.

Well, I know it is a belief among most mainstream Christians, that if you are good, (according to what criteria, they have no idea as they chucked the Law of God and the definition of sin is the transgression of the law, so I guess it is according to the conservative morals du jour) you go to heaven. And if you're deemed unworthy, by whatever the criteria may be, you're going to dance the lambada in an everlasting hellfire for eternity. And not your fault, really, cuz, who knew?

But they get that from Dante, and not the Bible. So, yeah, Adam blew it. He Screwed up. But that just set a new plan in place for Adam later on. Eventually, Adam will be resurrected and given God's Spirit and an opportunity to get it right. It was planned from the day that Adam sinned... because he could have chosen the tree of life, which would have given him God's spirit, whereby he could become complete, but he chose an easier way. But, he'll get it right later.

I'm not too familiar with all that jargon... dogma, apologetics, exegesis... I am pretty familiar with what the actual book says. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:21-22) It is appointed once for all men to die... but in Christ all shall be made alive. It's the same all.

Man was made incomplete, but God's not done with him yet.

Soj