Are members of the Trinity really "co-equal"?

[polonius]

After the “Ascension of Jesus� the Jewish Christians continued as very observant members of Judaism and worshipped in the Temple. This means that they had to believe the most basic of Jewish teachings – “Hear O Israel, the Lord is One�

Although the Old Testament made clear that the Messiah was a man (not divine) as does Acts, about 85 AD, Christians began to claim that Jesus was divine himself. This resulted in them being anathematized from Judaism labeled “minim� or apostates and excluded from Jewish synagogues. (see the gospel of John written in 95 AD).

To remedy this problem, about the third century the idea of a Trinity was invented. It’s three members were said to be absolutely consubstantial (same substance), co-eternal, and co-equal.

But the “co-equal� claim is self-defeating. If two things are absolutely “co-equal� they are the same. There is no characteristic to distinguish them. If they can be distinguished, obviously they are not the same or co-equal.

[Capbook]

Are you now claiming that the voice speaking in Revelation 1:10-11 isn't Jesus? If not, what do 1:12-13 mean?

Behind John, "A strong voice like that of a trumpet saying: 'What you see write in a scroll,'"etc. is Jesus, so yes, verses 10-13 refer to Him. John turns around and sees what turns out to be Jesus. The voice behind him didn't say that he was the Alpha and Omega. (New American Bible, NASB, American Standard Version, NIV and others. The voice in verse 8 is the Father, Jehovah. Then it goes on to describe John's encounter with Jesus.

Verse 8 refers to the one coming, where all eyes will see Him even those who pierced Him, and claimed as the Alpha and the Omega, the Almighty it did refer to Jesus. Even the Father as the speaker of the whole chapter of Zec 12, and in verse 10 claimed as being pierced and seen by many.
Who was then being pierced and seen by many?

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

The last part of that verse shows you who it was that was pierced, as mentioned in this passage. It is He who mourns for his only son, and with bitterness for the Son, as one that "is in bitterness for his firstborn." I don't see in that verse anything about being "seen by many." Jehovah was pierced to the heart when having to watch His Son die.

Is the verse verse wrong when it says,"they shall look upon me whom they have pierced?"
Who are they then that look upon Him whom being pierced?

It refers to Jesus' suffering and by extension his own Father's suffering. What are your thoughts about "He who mourns for his only son, and with bitterness for the Son, as one that "is in bitterness for his firstborn." Who is that?

Yes, the Father mourns for His only Son.
Let me be clear, is Jesus the one being pierced? Yes or no.
As lexicon define "pierced" in Greek "daqar" not one is suffering.
Yes, though suffering as a result of being pierced but specifically the Bible used the word pierced.

דּקר dâqar
BDB Definition:
1) to pierce, thrust through, pierce through
1a) (Qal) to pierce, run through
1b) (Niphal) to be pierced through
1c) (Pual) pierced, riddled (participle)

You answered my question about "he who mourns for his only son," "in bitterness for his only son," bitterness for his firstborn, by saying that it is the Father. So the Scripture in question refers to the Father and his grief over the death of his Son, as if he were also pierced to the heart.

Yes, the Father mourns for His only Son.
But whose human body being pierced? That some looked upon?

Of course it was the Son's. How does that contradict what I said?

It would proves that Jesus is the one referred to Rev 1:7-8.
Would you accept that Jesus is wrong on John 5:37?

Jhn 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen.

[onewithhim]

Behind John, "A strong voice like that of a trumpet saying: 'What you see write in a scroll,'"etc. is Jesus, so yes, verses 10-13 refer to Him. John turns around and sees what turns out to be Jesus. The voice behind him didn't say that he was the Alpha and Omega. (New American Bible, NASB, American Standard Version, NIV and others. The voice in verse 8 is the Father, Jehovah. Then it goes on to describe John's encounter with Jesus.

Verse 8 refers to the one coming, where all eyes will see Him even those who pierced Him, and claimed as the Alpha and the Omega, the Almighty it did refer to Jesus. Even the Father as the speaker of the whole chapter of Zec 12, and in verse 10 claimed as being pierced and seen by many.
Who was then being pierced and seen by many?

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

The last part of that verse shows you who it was that was pierced, as mentioned in this passage. It is He who mourns for his only son, and with bitterness for the Son, as one that "is in bitterness for his firstborn." I don't see in that verse anything about being "seen by many." Jehovah was pierced to the heart when having to watch His Son die.

Is the verse verse wrong when it says,"they shall look upon me whom they have pierced?"
Who are they then that look upon Him whom being pierced?

It refers to Jesus' suffering and by extension his own Father's suffering. What are your thoughts about "He who mourns for his only son, and with bitterness for the Son, as one that "is in bitterness for his firstborn." Who is that?

Yes, the Father mourns for His only Son.
Let me be clear, is Jesus the one being pierced? Yes or no.
As lexicon define "pierced" in Greek "daqar" not one is suffering.
Yes, though suffering as a result of being pierced but specifically the Bible used the word pierced.

דּקר dâqar
BDB Definition:
1) to pierce, thrust through, pierce through
1a) (Qal) to pierce, run through
1b) (Niphal) to be pierced through
1c) (Pual) pierced, riddled (participle)

You answered my question about "he who mourns for his only son," "in bitterness for his only son," bitterness for his firstborn, by saying that it is the Father. So the Scripture in question refers to the Father and his grief over the death of his Son, as if he were also pierced to the heart.

Yes, the Father mourns for His only Son.
But whose human body being pierced? That some looked upon?

Of course it was the Son's. How does that contradict what I said?

It would proves that Jesus is the one referred to Rev 1:7-8.
Would you accept that Jesus is wrong on John 5:37?

Jhn 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen.

I don't see how John 5:37 shows that Jesus is God Almighty. Can you explain that?

I've also posted that Revelation 1:7 refers to Jesus, and verse 8 refers to God, the Father. After all, Revelation was inspired by Jehovah to Jesus and then to John. "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him." (verse 1) Is it so far fetched then that God, the Father, would speak of Himself in various places throughout Revelation? He speaks of Himself at Revelation 1:8.

[Capbook]

Verse 8 refers to the one coming, where all eyes will see Him even those who pierced Him, and claimed as the Alpha and the Omega, the Almighty it did refer to Jesus. Even the Father as the speaker of the whole chapter of Zec 12, and in verse 10 claimed as being pierced and seen by many.
Who was then being pierced and seen by many?

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

The last part of that verse shows you who it was that was pierced, as mentioned in this passage. It is He who mourns for his only son, and with bitterness for the Son, as one that "is in bitterness for his firstborn." I don't see in that verse anything about being "seen by many." Jehovah was pierced to the heart when having to watch His Son die.

Is the verse verse wrong when it says,"they shall look upon me whom they have pierced?"
Who are they then that look upon Him whom being pierced?

It refers to Jesus' suffering and by extension his own Father's suffering. What are your thoughts about "He who mourns for his only son, and with bitterness for the Son, as one that "is in bitterness for his firstborn." Who is that?

Yes, the Father mourns for His only Son.
Let me be clear, is Jesus the one being pierced? Yes or no.
As lexicon define "pierced" in Greek "daqar" not one is suffering.
Yes, though suffering as a result of being pierced but specifically the Bible used the word pierced.

דּקר dâqar
BDB Definition:
1) to pierce, thrust through, pierce through
1a) (Qal) to pierce, run through
1b) (Niphal) to be pierced through
1c) (Pual) pierced, riddled (participle)

You answered my question about "he who mourns for his only son," "in bitterness for his only son," bitterness for his firstborn, by saying that it is the Father. So the Scripture in question refers to the Father and his grief over the death of his Son, as if he were also pierced to the heart.

Yes, the Father mourns for His only Son.
But whose human body being pierced? That some looked upon?

Of course it was the Son's. How does that contradict what I said?

It would proves that Jesus is the one referred to Rev 1:7-8.
Would you accept that Jesus is wrong on John 5:37?

Jhn 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen.

I don't see how John 5:37 shows that Jesus is God Almighty. Can you explain that?

I've also posted that Revelation 1:7 refers to Jesus, and verse 8 refers to God, the Father. After all, Revelation was inspired by Jehovah to Jesus and then to John. "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him." (verse 1) Is it so far fetched then that God, the Father, would speak of Himself in various places throughout Revelation? He speaks of Himself at Revelation 1:8.

Before I come to that, let me know if you believe Jesus was wrong when He says the John 5:37.
Through context do "at any time" only refer to Pharisees?

Jhn 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape