Physical pain in Hell

[Lux]

For the sake of this discussion, we assume there is a place called Hell, where some people (which people is irrelevant here) go after they die.

Every time I've heard about Hell, it was all about physical pain. Fire, torture, eternal agony. But how can we experience pain after we've died? Our brains cease to work, our neurones die. Our nerves no longer transmit signals. It is observable that a dead person can feel no pain. Otherwise, autopsies would be a terribly inhumane practice.

How can we feel pain, even in Hell, if our brains no longer function?

It has been pointed out to me that what goes to Hell or Heaven are our souls. How is it possible for a soul to feel physical pain?

[Benoni]

Just a word for all you Atheist there may be a lot of confusion when it comes to the multiple ways people interpret God's Word; but as you can see ultimate all these debates to an end with a truth triumphant.

[bernee51]

Just a word for all you Atheist there may be a lot of confusion when it comes to the multiple ways people interpret God's Word; but as you can see ultimate all these debates to an end with a truth triumphant.

Thanks for the 'heads up' George. I do note that interpretation does play a part in accessing all teh sacred scriptures man has put togetehr through history. That is part of the wonder that is the wisdom traditions.

I do not see, however, any place where 'truth truimphant' resides - other than in your opinion.

[S-word]

Carnal man is born dead. Dead to God, dead to spiritual realm, dead to all things of God; so dead he does not have the life to choose God. On the contrary all he has the power to do is choose death.

Who is carnal man; he is a dead man for when Adam died we all died. Genesis 2: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

Death: First of all lets stop looking at death and sin as something so terrible negative; if God did not want death, sin etc to happen to His creation, it would of never happened; for He is God. A God who has a will and a purpose that far exceeds to false imaginations of all men be it Christian or carnal.

Genesis 5:5
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Was not Paul phyically alive when he wrote Romans; he knew he was spiritully dead.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Here again Paul address the carnal mind as being dead.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

I quoted this just now but it speaks of death again in vs. 5. The first death is not physical death to a spiritual man; the first death is spiritual death or a the vesrses just declared.

dead in sins
dead in trespasses and sins
carnally minded is death
deliver me from the body of this death
sin hath reigned unto death

Call it what ever you want to but what the first death is is not physical death; I will believe God's Word you can believe your religous traditions.

Death: (1) Termination of life. (2) The extintion of life. (3) the ceasation of life.

I am assuming that your life has never been terminated, and that you are still awaiting the first death, which is that of the termination, or extintion of your physical body. That is of course, unless you believe like the atheists, that the Mind/Spirit that is "YOU," which has, and will continue to develop in that body until it dies, after which, without your physical senses, your spiritual or mental growth will cease, and be terminated with the body. Then there would be no need of a second death.

But if you believe that the mind/spirit that is you, survives the first death, which is that of your body, and then is judged by the Lord God, are you saying that it will receive eternal life irrelevant as to what sort of life that person had lived? Would the mind of the perverted child molesting murderer continue to live in the eternal Logos?

Most people do not accept the law that says, "He who sheds man's blood, by man must his blood be shed." Those people have no respect for the sacredness of life, and believe that to execute that murderer is wrong, even though, by his own wilful act he forfieted his right to live in our sociaty. They are against capital punishment.

But would they agree, if we ever acheive the technoly to do so, to injecting that person with a substance that will wipe away all memories within his brain, and that while that person in an induced come, we can program into that brain, memories of different past. If so, they have still terminated the mind, that was the child molesting murdering pervert.

When the perverts, murderers, theives etc, are cast back into the refining fires of another cycle of physical universal activity, those minds/spirits suffer the second death when they are separated from the eternal soul and that portion of the etrnal soul will receive a new heart/body and a new spirit/mind.

[S-word]

S-words Response; Not hard at all, but I would have thought that you would have understood this verse. If you condemn a noxious tree to be destroyed and cut it down and kill it, only to return at a later date to find a forrest of noxious trees have sprung up from the root stock, you will quickly realise that untill you destroy every tree in that forrest, that first tree that you condemned to destruction remains alive. We all die in Adam who was the compilation of all the animal spirits that were gathered to the Logos in its evolution to become mankind.

I thought we were debating scripture where did this come from?

Post #7 “�IS JESUS GOD�? Quote= Benoni; “So Jesus was a human man, totally; sure there was something very special about this boy born of virgin.�

Are we not all living trees that have sprouted from the root stock of Adam who was sentenced to death? As Long as we remain alive, Adam Lives. Each and every human who is totally man (Inclusive: the androgynous body of Mankind) must each pay the death penalty that we, including Jesus, who you have stated is totally human, have inherited from the living rootstock of Adam to which we are still attached. The death of each human being, no matter how rightous his life was, can only pay the penalty for their inherited sin.

For it has been appointed for all, who are totally man, once to die, and then, after the first death and our bodies have been Terminated, we, the minds/spirits which develop within those bodies, are judged by God. What do you believe would be the punishment that God would impose upon the mind/spirit of the unrepentant child molesting perverted murderer, life, death, or eternal torment in the fires of hell?

[Benoni]

Just a word for all you Atheist there may be a lot of confusion when it comes to the multiple ways people interpret God's Word; but as you can see ultimate all these debates to an end with a truth triumphant.

Thanks for the 'heads up' George. I do note that interpretation does play a part in accessing all teh sacred scriptures man has put togetehr through history. That is part of the wonder that is the wisdom traditions.

I do not see, however, any place where 'truth triumphant' resides - other than in your opinion.

Of course you have no faith in scripture; but neither do most believer as I think you are beginning to see, of course unless it fits their agenda.

I am after the hidden of agenda with God; that is where the glory is.

Pro. 25: 2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

I myself have no faith in the letter of the Word; but of course the spirit of the Word; another way to say it is the Spirit of God, (elohim) deep down knows what is man's tradition and what is truth. God hides His deepness from those He is not ready to hear it, be they religious or be they un-spiritual. I believe this is the most amazing point of God's Word how He hides it right in front of our noses.

2Th 2:11
(ALT) And for this reason God will send to them a supernatural working of deception, for them to believe the lie,

Watch my post and you will see that I never follow the traditions of religions; yet who is using God's Word; who uses opinion. So much that is taught in the Christian religion is taught because mom and dad believed it. Another thing is so often believers look at one subject like i.e. "salvation, and that is their hub of the wheel.

These are very spiritual principles that hold all believers down so they have stopped reaching for His glory. But then again God is not calling the whole world now; but the whole world is part of His complete and divine plan.

[Benoni]

Carnal man is born dead. Dead to God, dead to spiritual realm, dead to all things of God; so dead he does not have the life to choose God. On the contrary all he has the power to do is choose death.

Who is carnal man; he is a dead man for when Adam died we all died. Genesis 2: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

Death: First of all lets stop looking at death and sin as something so terrible negative; if God did not want death, sin etc to happen to His creation, it would of never happened; for He is God. A God who has a will and a purpose that far exceeds to false imaginations of all men be it Christian or carnal.

Genesis 5:5
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Was not Paul phyically alive when he wrote Romans; he knew he was spiritully dead.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Here again Paul address the carnal mind as being dead.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

I quoted this just now but it speaks of death again in vs. 5. The first death is not physical death to a spiritual man; the first death is spiritual death or a the vesrses just declared.

dead in sins
dead in trespasses and sins
carnally minded is death
deliver me from the body of this death
sin hath reigned unto death

Call it what ever you want to but what the first death is is not physical death; I will believe God's Word you can believe your religous traditions.

Death: (1) Termination of life. (2) The extintion of life. (3) the ceasation of life.

I am assuming that your life has never been terminated, and that you are still awaiting the first death, which is that of the termination, or extintion of your physical body. That is of course, unless you believe like the atheists, that the Mind/Spirit that is "YOU," which has, and will continue to develop in that body until it dies, after which, without your physical senses, your spiritual or mental growth will cease, and be terminated with the body. Then there would be no need of a second death.

But if you believe that the mind/spirit that is you, survives the first death, which is that of your body, and then is judged by the Lord God, are you saying that it will receive eternal life irrelevant as to what sort of life that person had lived? Would the mind of the perverted child molesting murderer continue to live in the eternal Logos?

Most people do not accept the law that says, "He who sheds man's blood, by man must his blood be shed." Those people have no respect for the sacredness of life, and believe that to execute that murderer is wrong, even though, by his own wilful act he forfieted his right to live in our sociaty. They are against capital punishment.

But would they agree, if we ever acheive the technoly to do so, to injecting that person with a substance that will wipe away all memories within his brain, and that while that person in an induced come, we can program into that brain, memories of different past. If so, they have still terminated the mind, that was the child molesting murdering pervert.

When the perverts, murderers, theives etc, are cast back into the refining fires of another cycle of physical universal activity, those minds/spirits suffer the second death when they are separated from the eternal soul and that portion of the etrnal soul will receive a new heart/body and a new spirit/mind.

When are you going to get it; I am a Christian not a religious bias limited believer, or an agnostic, or an atheists; and I believe in God’s Word not peoples opinion; I might as well burn up my Bible for every word you post is based on your bias religious opinion not on God’s Word.

I posted valid verses of the Bible and at the top of this post and you ignore them and do not address them and then you give me your opinion based on your human logical experience. This is not scripture or God's Word; it is total human logic.

You sure do like throwing the original language around when it comes to the “virgin birth� which is not part of the subject of this thread; but when it comes to the first death, second death you throw away the Bible and turn to your bias logic based on all human experience. We are discussing something spiritual here, we are dicussing God's Word which is either the answer for all lifes questions or is an old worthless holy book as times past as our athest brothers believe. I believe it is divine so please use it. And please do not go off on a titrate on the “virgin birth here� please start your own thread.

You are trying to reason with me with your religious logic and will not even address scripture be it the verses I quoted you or even verses you should of discovered to refute my valid Bible verses on this subject.

[S-word]

Carnal man is born dead. Dead to God, dead to spiritual realm, dead to all things of God; so dead he does not have the life to choose God. On the contrary all he has the power to do is choose death.

Who is carnal man; he is a dead man for when Adam died we all died. Genesis 2: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die

Death: First of all lets stop looking at death and sin as something so terrible negative; if God did not want death, sin etc to happen to His creation, it would of never happened; for He is God. A God who has a will and a purpose that far exceeds to false imaginations of all men be it Christian or carnal.

Genesis 5:5
And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Was not Paul phyically alive when he wrote Romans; he knew he was spiritully dead.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Here again Paul address the carnal mind as being dead.

Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

I quoted this just now but it speaks of death again in vs. 5. The first death is not physical death to a spiritual man; the first death is spiritual death or a the vesrses just declared.

dead in sins
dead in trespasses and sins
carnally minded is death
deliver me from the body of this death
sin hath reigned unto death

Call it what ever you want to but what the first death is is not physical death; I will believe God's Word you can believe your religous traditions.

Death: (1) Termination of life. (2) The extintion of life. (3) the ceasation of life.

I am assuming that your life has never been terminated, and that you are still awaiting the first death, which is that of the termination, or extintion of your physical body. That is of course, unless you believe like the atheists, that the Mind/Spirit that is "YOU," which has, and will continue to develop in that body until it dies, after which, without your physical senses, your spiritual or mental growth will cease, and be terminated with the body. Then there would be no need of a second death.

But if you believe that the mind/spirit that is you, survives the first death, which is that of your body, and then is judged by the Lord God, are you saying that it will receive eternal life irrelevant as to what sort of life that person had lived? Would the mind of the perverted child molesting murderer continue to live in the eternal Logos?

Most people do not accept the law that says, "He who sheds man's blood, by man must his blood be shed." Those people have no respect for the sacredness of life, and believe that to execute that murderer is wrong, even though, by his own wilful act he forfieted his right to live in our sociaty. They are against capital punishment.

But would they agree, if we ever acheive the technoly to do so, to injecting that person with a substance that will wipe away all memories within his brain, and that while that person in an induced come, we can program into that brain, memories of different past. If so, they have still terminated the mind, that was the child molesting murdering pervert.

When the perverts, murderers, theives etc, are cast back into the refining fires of another cycle of physical universal activity, those minds/spirits suffer the second death when they are separated from the eternal soul and that portion of the etrnal soul will receive a new heart/body and a new spirit/mind.

When are you going to get it; I am a Christian not a religious bias limited believer, or an agnostic, or an atheists; and I believe in God’s Word not peoples opinion; I might as well burn up my Bible for every word you post is based on your bias religious opinion not on God’s Word.

I posted valid verses of the Bible and at the top of this post and you ignore them and do not address them and then you give me your opinion based on your human logical experience. This is not scripture or God's Word; it is total human logic.

You sure do like throwing the original language around when it comes to the “virgin birth� which is not part of the subject of this thread; but when it comes to the first death, second death you throw away the Bible and turn to your bias logic based on all human experience. We are discussing something spiritual here, we are dicussing God's Word which is either the answer for all lifes questions or is an old worthless holy book as times past as our athest brothers believe. I believe it is divine so please use it. And please do not go off on a titrate on the “virgin birth here� please start your own thread.

You are trying to reason with me with your religious logic and will not even address scripture be it the verses I quoted you or even verses you should of discovered to refute my valid Bible verses on this subject.

Knowing the definition of a strawman, you still depict yourself as a strawman, WHY?

Noun 1. Strawman- a person used as a cover for some questionable activity: figurehead, front man, nominal head, straw man, front beguiler, cheater, deceiver, trickster, cheat- someone who leads you to believe something that is not true.

2. strawman- a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted.
Specious argument---an argument that appears good at first view but is really fallacious.

When teaching his disciples and the people, Jesus, more often than using scripture, would explain himself by using everyday things that the uneducated could understand, things such as buildings, gardens, the sowing of seed, the trees and the fruit that they bear etc.

But putting all that aside, and knowing that all men must die the physical death, which was the penalty imposed on Adam/mankind and then their soul/spirit be judged by God: do you believe that the judgment of God upon the souls of man, who died in unrepentant sin, who have paid the penalty for their inherited sin, is eternal life? Or do you believe the scripture that says, “The soul that sins shall die�? And please don’t try to deceive us into believing that bodies of corruptible and decaying matter, can live eternally.

The Good News was preached to the dead also, in order that those who had been judged in the flesh as all, who are totally human must be judged, might live their spiritual lives as God lives. Do you believe that the souls of the terrorists, who flew the planes into the Twin Towers, if after the death of their bodies, they were still unrepentant of the murders of all those innocent people, they would be given the right to live their spiritual lives as God lives? And if not, what do the scripture say will happen to such unrepentant disembodied souls?

[Benoni]

You are not Jesus. So God’s Word is a straw man? So God’s Word according to you is a trick, a deceiver, a trick. You sir need to look in the log in your own eye; I have been trying to get you to address my post which are scriptural with scripture; I do not have a straw man’s argument, I have a scriptural argument. You on the other hand are doing everything in your power not to address the valid scriptures I post.

You want to debate this scriptural based debate; please use scripture not your opinion; I am still waiting and all I get is the run around.

[S-word]

You are not Jesus. So God’s Word is a straw man? So God’s Word according to you is a trick, a deceiver, a trick. You sir need to look in the log in your own eye; I have been trying to get you to address my post which are scriptural with scripture; I do not have a straw man’s argument, I have a scriptural argument. You on the other hand are doing everything in your power not to address the valid scriptures I post.

You want to debate this scriptural based debate; please use scripture not your opinion; I am still waiting and all I get is the run around.

quote="Benoni"; So God’s Word is a straw man?

S-words Response; What, are you insinuating that Gods word is fallacious and a sham, for I never have, nor would I ever do such a thing, I believe the Holy Scriptures to be true, and are the words that lead to eternal life when read in context.

quote="Benoni"; So God’s Word according to you is a trick, a deceiver, a trick.

S-words Response; No mate, you’re the one that keeps ranting on about God’s word being a strawman and being deceptive. I merely asked you, why an educated person, and I am assuming that you are an educated person, who would undoubtedly know the definition of a straw man, would then go ahead and depict themselves as a straw man?

quote="Benoni"; You sir need to look in the log in your own eye;

S-words Response; Why? Are you suggesting that I have a hollow log in my eye or something? Because I can assure you that I don’t, and besides that, even if I did, I don’t make a habit of looking in hollow logs.

quote="Benoni"; I have been trying to get you to address my post which are scriptural with scripture;

S-words Response; Which I have done. Hebrew 9: 27; “It is appointed unto man ONCE to die, but AFTER this the judgment.� Now surely you understand that when the scripture refers to “MAN�, it is referring to a physical being, and once your body dies, it goes through a process of decay and is returned to the universal elements from which it was formed and the “MAN� has then ceased to exist, and according to God’s word, “YOU,� the disembodied spirit, which can no longer be classified as Man, are judged by God.

Now the question I put to you is, If all spirits go off to be Judged after the death of the body in which they developed, and according to scripture, “ALL� the personalities that develop in the bodies of man, are judged by God after the termination of the bodies in which they developed, do they all (The righteous and the unrighteous) receive the eternal life that is promised to the righteous? Or are the unperfected, thrown back into the refining fires of the next cycle of universal activity, where that personality will die and hopefully, a new perfected personality will develop within the next resurrection of the universal body

quote="Benoni"; I do not have a straw man’s argument, I have a scriptural argument.

S-words Response; I’m afraid you do have a straw man’s argument my friend. When you intentionally take scripture out of all context and put forward some fallacious interpretation of your own invention, “that is a strawman,� According to scripture, the first death is that of the body in which we the mind/spirit develop, and after the death of the bodies of man, the /Person/spirit is judged, See Revelation 21: 5-8; “All those disembodied persons, who have won the victory, will be given the right to drink from the spring of the waters of life and will inherit their position in the Family of God. But all the traitors, perverts, murderers, thieves etc, will be cast back into lake burning with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. These are not my words, these are the words of my God.

quote="Benoni"; You on the other hand are doing everything in your power not to address the valid scriptures I post.

S-words Response; I will continue to confront all fallacious interpretations of God’s word, which, can be based on scripture, but scripture that has been taken out of the context to the meaning that those scriptures were meant to convey, you may be dead to sin, but you will remain alive until you suffer the first death, which is that of your body.

quote="Benoni"; You want to debate this scriptural based debate; please use scripture not your opinion; I am still waiting and all I get is the run around.

S-words Response; I have, and everyone who browses through these post, will know that I have used the scriptures in this debate, and I have used them in the context for which they were intended.

[S-word]

You are not Jesus. So God’s Word is a straw man? So God’s Word according to you is a trick, a deceiver, a trick. You sir need to look in the log in your own eye; I have been trying to get you to address my post which are scriptural with scripture; I do not have a straw man’s argument, I have a scriptural argument. You on the other hand are doing everything in your power not to address the valid scriptures I post.

You want to debate this scriptural based debate; please use scripture not your opinion; I am still waiting and all I get is the run around.

quote="Benoni"; So God’s Word is a straw man?

S-words Response; What, are you insinuating that Gods word is fallacious and a sham, for I never have, nor would I ever do such a thing, I believe the Holy Scriptures to be true, and are the words that lead to eternal life when read in context.

quote="Benoni"; So God’s Word according to you is a trick, a deceiver, a trick.

S-words Response; No mate, you’re the one that keeps ranting on about God’s word being a strawman and being deceptive. I merely asked you, why an educated person, and I am assuming that you are an educated person, who would undoubtedly know the definition of a straw man, would then go ahead and depict themselves as a straw man?

quote="Benoni"; You sir need to look in the log in your own eye;

S-words Response; Why? Are you suggesting that I have a hollow log in my eye or something? Because I can assure you that I don’t, and besides that, even if I did, I don’t make a habit of looking in hollow logs.

quote="Benoni"; I have been trying to get you to address my post which are scriptural with scripture;

S-words Response; Which I have done. Hebrew 9: 27; “It is appointed unto man ONCE to die, but AFTER this the judgment.� Now surely you understand that when the scripture refers to “MAN�, it is referring to a physical being, and once your body dies, it goes through a process of decay and is returned to the universal elements from which it was formed and the “MAN� has then ceased to exist, and according to God’s word, “YOU,� the disembodied spirit, which can no longer be classified as Man, are judged by God.

Now the question I put to you is, If all spirits go off to be Judged after the death of the body in which they developed, and according to scripture, “ALL� the personalities that develop in the bodies of man, are judged by God after the termination of the bodies in which they developed, do they all (The righteous and the unrighteous) receive the eternal life that is promised to the righteous? Or are the unperfected, thrown back into the refining fires of the next cycle of universal activity, where that personality will die and hopefully, a new perfected personality will develop within the next resurrection of the universal body

quote="Benoni"; I do not have a straw man’s argument, I have a scriptural argument.

S-words Response; I’m afraid you do have a straw man’s argument my friend. When you intentionally take scripture out of all context and put forward some fallacious interpretation of your own invention, “that is a strawman,� According to scripture, the first death is that of the body in which we the mind/spirit develop, and after the death of the bodies of man, the /Person/spirit is judged, See Revelation 21: 5-8; “All those disembodied persons, who have won the victory, will be given the right to drink from the spring of the waters of life and will inherit their position in the Family of God. But all the traitors, perverts, murderers, thieves etc, will be cast back into lake burning with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. These are not my words, these are the words of my God.

quote="Benoni"; You on the other hand are doing everything in your power not to address the valid scriptures I post.

S-words Response; I will continue to confront all fallacious interpretations of God’s word, which, can be based on scripture, but scripture that has been taken out of the context to the meaning that those scriptures were meant to convey, you may be dead to sin, but you will remain alive until you suffer the first death, which is that of your body.

quote="Benoni"; You want to debate this scriptural based debate; please use scripture not your opinion; I am still waiting and all I get is the run around.

S-words Response; I have, and everyone who browses through these posts, will know that I have used the scriptures in this debate, and I have used them in the context for which they were intended.