Secular schools destroy morality.

[FinalEnigma]

Well, Zyzzx, for the last 40 years we've seen some real fine examples of your humanism as work. The schools have become war zones and morality has been flushed down the PC toilets. Congratulations on your religion free Utopian wasteland. LOL!!!

Easyrider claims that humanism destroy a countries morality through the school system. can it be shown that humanism is the cause of a decline in morality in one of the most christian countries in the world?

questions for debate:
Is there a decline in morality in america?

If so, is it a result of the school system?

If so, is the decline of the school system a result of secular humanism?

[McCulloch]

You're from Canada, right?

Did I make it that obvious? Yes, I was born in Canada and I have never lived outside of Canada. Watching (and watching out for) America is a national obsession for us.

If so, you are perhaps taking this from a biased perspective.

We all have biases. Being an outsider (almost, maybe) my bias will be different than yours.

You are looking upon the morals of North American society from a member of said society who probably holds many of the same morals. The fact that your morals mirror the morals of your society means that you are looking at the moral fabric of your society from a biased perspective. Of course, everything regarding morality involves bias and subjectivity.

Are you saying that slavery, male only suffrage and the indiscriminate killing of civilians in war are good things?

Now, on to the OP. I'm honestly not sure what perspective to take on this question. I guess, perhaps, I should look at it from a Christian perspective, as easyrider is Christian and he is the one who sees moral decay in America. I suppose, if I look at it from a Christian perspective, morality is declining in America as more people are beginning to turn away from Christianity and its moral code with it.

I see the move away from Divinely Revealed religions towards humanism as moral improvement.

Blaming humanism and school districts though? Pfft. School has a surprisingly small influence on the morals of a child, and humanism isn't even mentioned in school. Connecting "moral decline" in America to schools and humanism is incredibly flimsy at best, and I would like to ask easyrider to elaborate on his claim and try to back it up because, as is, it is an unsubstantiated and ridiculous claim.

I absolutely agree. Easyrider, your thesis needs support and substantiation.

[Goat]

Blaming humanism and school districts though? Pfft. School has a surprisingly small influence on the morals of a child, and humanism isn't even mentioned in school. Connecting "moral decline" in America to schools and humanism is incredibly flimsy at best, and I would like to ask easyrider to elaborate on his claim and try to back it up because, as is, it is an unsubstantiated and ridiculous claim.

I absolutely agree. Easyrider, your thesis needs support and substantiation.

Since the 'moral decline' started in the late 50's, the only obvious correlation between something that happened then, and later on is the addition of
'In God We Trust' on the money.

Obviously, people are worshiping Money rather than God now.

[Cathar1950]

Blaming humanism and school districts though? Pfft. School has a surprisingly small influence on the morals of a child, and humanism isn't even mentioned in school. Connecting "moral decline" in America to schools and humanism is incredibly flimsy at best, and I would like to ask easyrider to elaborate on his claim and try to back it up because, as is, it is an unsubstantiated and ridiculous claim.

I absolutely agree. Easyrider, your thesis needs support and substantiation.

Since the 'moral decline' started in the late 50's, the only obvious correlation between something that happened then, and later on is the addition of
'In God We Trust' on the money.

Obviously, people are worshiping Money rather than God now.

Is that when 'moral decline' started, the 1950?
I would like to see some evidence of moral decline anytime.
How is this 'moral decline' measured?
Sure the mint made a mistake and they created a few "godless coins" but that happens and they are worth more.
I don't see humanism as being anything much more then a moral force if morality is any indicator of its worthiness. I don't see any indication in most descriptions of humanism as being anti-moral.
I would not only like to see easyrider back up his claim but also to explain what he could even mean.
If anything I would think the business and behavioural models of education along with education's dependence and catering to the needs of corporate America have a lot to do with the decline in education. Good schools are still good schools and there seems to be little correlation between their religiosity or what ever easyrider thinks would be a better alternative. I am sure money helps.
Progressive education even as it was found effective was never really tried as war has often lead us astray. I doubt easyrider would recognize and effective education or poor education and I wonder where he got his sources for even making the claim. Did he make it up or did he just read it from some Christian that thinks the 10 commandments in every room and prayer everywhere will fix all our problems?

[msmcneal]

Is there a decline in morality in america?

Honestly, I would have to say yes. But then again, it all depends on how you define morality.

If so, is it a result of the school system

No, there's no proof that it is. I think the reason why Christians think this way is because in their mind their dogmas are not getting a fair share in schools. This is absurd, however, because that would be tantamount to a government-endorsed religion.

If so, is the decline of the school system a result of secular humanism

I honestly don't see how anyone can consider humanism the downfall of anything. I don't particularly subscribe to any form of humanism, but I also don't fail to see the good in it. The only way I can see that humanism would be considered immoral or causing immorality would be to deny basic human rights. If human rights are immoral, then I guess you would have a point, but this idea is just absurd. Of course, I used to believe the same thing when I was a Christian. But most Christians forget that some of the most important events to happen for a Christian, at least from an eschatological perspective, happened in the 40's and 50's, the 50's in America especially. Then the 60's came, with "rampant liberalism" and government endorsed prayer being taken out of schools. Students always have been, and always will be, allowed to pray, and lead prayer, and have Bible study and prayer groups (I was part of one in high school in the late 90's), so there's no reason to think that public schools have caused any kind of immorality. Humanism has been around at least since the Enlightenment, yet all the things Christians consider wrong in the schools and America they only date back to the 50's, at the earliest. And to me, in order for them to be consistent, this would be dishonest.

[Saint Lucia of Syracuse]

As moral decline has been observed by many elderly members of every single generation in recorded history we must conclude that these histrionic laments are a result of a person's desultory investigation of his or her time and have nothing to do with what is actually going on in the world.
Statistics, as Mr. Samuel Clemens pointed out, can be used to justify any point of view.

I, however, am as fastidious as the OP whose theory I so mercilessly lanced.

I too find my age declining in morals.

The heinous fact that both Oprah Winfrey and Adam Sandler have yet to be publicly humiliated and beaten in a public square, prior to their sterilization and banishment to the Hebrides alone makes me feel lachrymose for that more just city I used to live in.

Greetings and floss daily.

Lucia.

[Greatest I Am]

As moral decline has been observed by many elderly members of every single generation in recorded history we must conclude that these histrionic laments are a result of a person's desultory investigation of his or her time and have nothing to do with what is actually going on in the world.
Statistics, as Mr. Samuel Clemens pointed out, can be used to justify any point of view.

I, however, am as fastidious as the OP whose theory I so mercilessly lanced.

I too find my age declining in morals.

The heinous fact that both Oprah Winfrey and Adam Sandler have yet to be publicly humiliated and beaten in a public square, prior to their sterilization and banishment to the Hebrides alone makes me feel lachrymose for that more just city I used to live in.

Greetings and floss daily.

Lucia.

No new insults to morals have arisen in 3000 years. Name some new evil if you can.

We are the same animal today that we were then.

As to secularism, you might note that their laws at present is better than religious law. They are laws of inclusion, not exclusion. No Jesus is the only way bull.

Secularism denounces slavery while religions tell us how to treat and beat slaves in a civilized way.

Secularism accepts that Gays are normal and should not be discriminated against without cause. religions tend to discriminate and denigrate without giving good reasons.

Secularism give woman equality while many religions do not. Souls of different value. Strange.

Regards
DL

[Saint Lucia of Syracuse]

No new insults to morals have arisen in 3000 years. Name some new evil if you can.

We are the same animal today that we were then.

As to secularism, you might note that their laws at present is better than religious law. They are laws of inclusion, not exclusion. No Jesus is the only way bull.

Secularism denounces slavery while religions tell us how to treat and beat slaves in a civilized way.

Secularism accepts that Gays are normal and should not be discriminated against without cause. religions tend to discriminate and denigrate without giving good reasons.

Secularism give woman equality while many religions do not. Souls of different value. Strange.

Regards
DL

I am not sure what brought about this harangue on secularism.
Surely it wasn't anything I posted.

Perhaps a confusion with another patron saint or an insufficient amount of caffeine in the bloodstream is to blame here.

Greetings and please don't pick your nose whilst driving.

Lucia

[Greatest I Am]

No new insults to morals have arisen in 3000 years. Name some new evil if you can.

We are the same animal today that we were then.

As to secularism, you might note that their laws at present is better than religious law. They are laws of inclusion, not exclusion. No Jesus is the only way bull.

Secularism denounces slavery while religions tell us how to treat and beat slaves in a civilized way.

Secularism accepts that Gays are normal and should not be discriminated against without cause. religions tend to discriminate and denigrate without giving good reasons.

Secularism give woman equality while many religions do not. Souls of different value. Strange.

Regards
DL

I am not sure what brought about this harangue on secularism.
Surely it wasn't anything I posted.

Perhaps a confusion with another patron saint or an insufficient amount of caffeine in the bloodstream is to blame here.

Greetings and please don't pick your nose whilst driving.

Lucia

What new vice have you found.
Or was your reply a recant?

Regards
DL

[Saint Lucia of Syracuse]

What new vice have you found.
Or was your reply a recant?

Regards
DL

I was trying to funny.

[OpenedUp]

Kind of like sex education promotes sexual activity?

Here's to the good old abstinence programs:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/30/virginity.pledges/