Mental Expansion, shamanism - Christianity and Psychedelics

[manicdepression]

From the beginning of time, Shamans and tribes used psychedelic plants to expand their mind into the spirit world and mental expansion. They generally had the shaman of the tribe that they served to the community as the mediator between the spirit realms and the world. Now they use plants with a compound build of the chemical 'dmt', which scientifically has been known as the Spirit Molecule.

It seems as if some of the biblical prophets could have been simply a mediator between god and the world and wrote letters to guide souls to help the world to go on a certain path or what you may wish. This may sound radical, but with my personal experience with psychoactive plants, you have an inexplicable experience of mysticism, where you feel connected with the universe and nature. Stick with me here, there are accounts of which there is possibly evidence of Moses and The day of the sabbath was used for psychedelic mushrooms.

read the book 'Mystery of Manna'.

Now i have very hard depression problems growing up strictly Christian and experiencing these type of things, and my life has become very Double-Minded and its hard to cope with, the bible has lots of wisdom, but i cant accept the dogma that God sends people to hell and Jesus was the ONLY way to talk to god.

I would like some insight.

[JoeyKnothead]

With all due respect, this is not the time or place to diagnose or treat the OPer. This dude faces a serious condition, and our debating about matters will not cure him.

NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO DIAGNOSE, OR TREAT SERIOUS MENTAL ISSUES OVER THE INTERNET.

I EMPHATICALLY REJECT YOUR ASSERTION THAT TREATMENT MAY NOT BE NECESSARY. THIS DUDE HAS SERIOUS ISSUES, AND THESE FORUMS ARE ILL EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THEM.

WHEN SOMEONE REACHES OUT FOR HELP, THE ONLY DIAGNOSIS THAT COULD APPROACH ACCURACY IS THAT THEY DO NEED HELP.

[melodious]

From the beginning of time, Shamans and tribes used psychedelic plants to expand their mind into the spirit world and mental expansion. They generally had the shaman of the tribe that they served to the community as the mediator between the spirit realms and the world. Now they use plants with a compound build of the chemical 'dmt', which scientifically has been known as the Spirit Molecule.

It seems as if some of the biblical prophets could have been simply a mediator between god and the world and wrote letters to guide souls to help the world to go on a certain path or what you may wish. This may sound radical, but with my personal experience with psychoactive plants, you have an inexplicable experience of mysticism, where you feel connected with the universe and nature. Stick with me here, there are accounts of which there is possibly evidence of Moses and The day of the sabbath was used for psychedelic mushrooms.

read the book 'Mystery of Manna'.

Now i have very hard depression problems growing up strictly Christian and experiencing these type of things, and my life has become very Double-Minded and its hard to cope with, the bible has lots of wisdom, but i cant accept the dogma that God sends people to hell and Jesus was the ONLY way to talk to god.

I would like some insight.

I've read the book you cite from Dan Merkur and it's an erudite read. Very well layed out and presented with true objectivity. The next book you should check out if you haven't already, folks, is 'The Serpent Grail' by Philip Gardiner and Gary Osborn. Now this book is beautifully comprehensive and lays out the entire enigma of the serpent in ancient culture and religions the world over. It cleary elucidates the reason why the serpent/cross symbolism is used as modern medicine symbols, and explains, in what is dubbed by the authors as the "grail triad," the three levels of the "the most ancient secret known to man." which expresses and manifests itself on the physical (the actual tincture/poison/medicine that extends life and is mixed in the skull, bowl, cup, or cauldron), mental/psychological/soulful (the mythical, metaphorical, and symbolic - the expression of the methodology under sublime veil, as to reveal to the worthy but hide from the vulgar), and the spiritual (the enlightenment experiences and knowledge, freedom, and liberation of immortality - what it is and what it means to be; the ethereal, infinite, eternal, cosmic, and universal absolute truth).

The 'Mystery of Manna' is wonderful for what it is - a very bible-based study - but 'The Serpent Grail,' IMO, takes it a step further and connects the entire enigma by illustrating the ubiquity of the serpent in religious culture. Jesus was, as the book explains to the reader who would perhaps only accept it if well studied in ancient religion and myth or just an openly free-thinking person, another mythical serpent-king who's story expresses these mysteries. Interesting enough, though, the book is not at all centered on Jesus and Christianity; rather the Serpent itself.
However, there is a qabalistic and gnostic term for the Christ: "The Serpent-Sun"!

May Lucifer dispel the darkness from within us all and the True-Christ reign in all of our hearts! Amen.

M

P.S. All men were not created, or born, equal, nor will they die equal! This thought is a weak fallicy of spineless philosophers of the vulgar "moral majority." As Plato says, "one will be turned away at the door of the Muse if one does not possess the divine madness." To address the OP again, this would allude to pychoactive drugs being used to reach the attainment of the enlightened mind which is set upon the eternal way or path.

[Nameless]

With all due respect, this is not the time or place to diagnose or treat the OPer. This dude faces a serious condition, and our debating about matters will not cure him.

NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO DIAGNOSE, OR TREAT SERIOUS MENTAL ISSUES OVER THE INTERNET.

I EMPHATICALLY REJECT YOUR ASSERTION THAT TREATMENT MAY NOT BE NECESSARY.

Nevertheless, it may not be necessary.

THIS DUDE HAS SERIOUS ISSUES, AND THESE FORUMS ARE ILL EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THEM.

WHEN SOMEONE REACHES OUT FOR HELP, THE ONLY DIAGNOSIS THAT COULD APPROACH ACCURACY IS THAT THEY DO NEED HELP.

Yelling does not magically transform 'opinion' into 'fact'.
Peace

[Vanguard]

With all due respect, this is not the time or place to diagnose or treat the OPer. This dude faces a serious condition, and our debating about matters will not cure him.

NO ONE IS QUALIFIED TO DIAGNOSE, OR TREAT SERIOUS MENTAL ISSUES OVER THE INTERNET.

I EMPHATICALLY REJECT YOUR ASSERTION THAT TREATMENT MAY NOT BE NECESSARY. THIS DUDE HAS SERIOUS ISSUES, AND THESE FORUMS ARE ILL EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THEM.

WHEN SOMEONE REACHES OUT FOR HELP, THE ONLY DIAGNOSIS THAT COULD APPROACH ACCURACY IS THAT THEY DO NEED HELP.

I second this notion. This young guy could very well be on the brink. Simply knowing that is a possibility we should dispense with the theoretical babbling about whether this is organic/situational and the like.

MD - You should take steps to distance yourself from the use of any of these drugs. Have you sought out professional help? If not, please do. If this were not simply a virtual reality on this forum I would invite you to come down to my clinic to talk a bit more. You could use some good advice.

I wish you the best.

[Greatest I Am]

Some quick thoughts.

Psychoactive drugs are enhancers of experience. They cannot create an experience.

If one is to use them to play with the mind, one should make sure the mind has finished growing. At your age it has not.

In terms of knowing God, that is usually a life long quest. Do not expect to know it all for some time. I was 36 when revelation struck. It takes time to bring all factors into view.

From what you have written of your beliefs and what you will not believe, I would say that you are on the right track.

As to any medical, especially any mental condition, who do you trust so greatly that you would accept a judgment that there is something wrong with you?

Most shrinks I know need a shrink themselves. Take any advice from them with a grain of salt. On a personal note, I had a head of a psychiatric unit basically throw a fit right in front of me so I like to think I have the authority to tell you to not believe them with too much vigor. Listen yes but do not believe.

Keep thinking the way you do on religion.

Regards
DL

[JoeyKnothead]

Listen yes but do not believe.

This would tend to negate the reason for listening in the first place.

[Greatest I Am]

Listen yes but do not believe.

This would tend to negate the reason for listening in the first place.

All that is heard is opinion.
Opinions can be wrong, especially from psychiatry.

My favorite motto is believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. At least not till you verify to your satisfaction.

Regards
DL

[JoeyKnothead]

Psychoactive drugs are enhancers of experience. They cannot create an experience.

This is an oversimplification of what happens with psychoactive drugs. To say they can't create experiences misses the mark. They often are the experience. Sometimes these events become the reality even when the drug use has stopped. In this way they can be thought of as creating experience.

As to any medical, especially any mental condition, who do you trust so greatly that you would accept a judgment that there is something wrong with you?

When someone reaches out for help, then it should be taken at face value they need help. Of course it could be their condition is not as severe as they may think, but to suggest they don't over the internet is irresponsible, and ill informed.

Most shrinks I know need a shrink themselves. Take any advice from them with a grain of salt. On a personal note, I had a head of a psychiatric unit basically throw a fit right in front of me so I like to think I have the authority to tell you to not believe them with too much vigor. Listen yes but do not believe.

But you would suggest this OPer take your advice? Over the internet? Without a proper physical or mental evaluation?
Again, irresponsible and ill informed decisions are not the way to go here. Just because one person 'throws a fit' is no way to sort this out.

Keep thinking the way you do on religion.

From the OP:

Now i have very hard depression problems growing up strictly Christian and experiencing these type of things, and my life has become very Double-Minded and its hard to cope with, the bible has lots of wisdom, but i cant accept the dogma that God sends people to hell and Jesus was the ONLY way to talk to god.

Going back over issues that have at least partly caused a problem is a very delicate undertaking, and should be handled by PROFESSIONALS. This forum is simply not the proper tool to do so.
Your apparently telling this poster to re-engage in the exploration of something that has at least partly caused the problem is another irresponsible, ill informed piece of advice. From the OP it is ambiguous as to which way this person may perceive his religion. Where he states it as at least a partial cause of his problems, without a proper medical and psychological exam it can't be known if this would help or worsen his condition.

All that is heard is opinion.
Opinions can be wrong, especially from psychiatry.

Your disdain for psychiatry is noted, but not supported by any evidence other than you seeing someone 'throw a fit'. If we are to go with this, what would you say about religious leaders who 'throw fits'?

[Greatest I Am]

joeyknuccione

The Bible of psychoactive drugs, as recognized by most in the field, world wide, is called the Ledain Royals commission on psychotropic drugs.
I have read it and believe what it says concerning being the experience or creating the experience. These are called mood altering substances as well. If in a depressed mood, most drugs will not suddenly change that mood to one of joy. It will likely just make you a depressed and intoxicated person. The same with a happy person taking a drug. It just makes them more happy. They are enhancers, not creators, of mood.

Have you noticed that not all users happy. Why would that be if happiness could be found in a drug.

As to advice on the internet. Anyone that does not take all information from any source with a grain of salt is stupid. All information regardless of the source should be carefully evaluated.

As to psychiatrists. Some time ago I had a TV program that targeted children pulled of the airwaves and out of schools based on the help of a child psychiatrist. This same man met my sons, 6 and 8. They had enough sense to recognize that he was strange, their words. I agreed but since he was also a university professor that I had to work with. I tolerated it.

As to the religious advise I gave. manic depression was that he was correct in doubting that there is only one route to God and that God created a hell for those not on that one track.

I fell good.

Regards
DL

[JoeyKnothead]

Greatest I Am,

I 'preciate your clarifications. As your case is currently stated I think it is a reasonable source/path for one to explore. My concern was it seemed like you were on a 'one cure fixes' all approach. I too agree that psychiatry can often be more art than science, but I still recommend the OPer seek help from a psychiatrist, if only to eliminate that as a source of info/help.

The OPer ain't been around in a spell, my posting was for anyone else that mighta thought they were in the same boat.