Can a muslim be a good 'American'

[justifyothers]

This is floating around the web. I thought it was an interesting debate topic.......

CAN A GOOD MUSLIM BE A GOOD AMERICAN ??

>Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of
>Arabia.
>
>Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except
>Islam (Quran, 2:256)
>
>Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam
>and the Quran (Koran).
>
>Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns
>in prayer five times a day.
>
>Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends
>with Christians or Jews.
>
>Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders),
>who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America,
>the great Satan.
>
>Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat
>and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).
>
>Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution
>since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be
>corrupt.
>
>Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow
>freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot
>co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
>
>Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "One Nation Under God," the
>Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as
>heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent
>names.
>
>Therefore after much study and deliberation... perhaps we should be very
>suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both
>"good" Muslims and good Americans.

[Confused]

The following is not justified and is also a violation of the rules against personal attacks.

My point was actually that the guy that wrote what you quoted in first post is an idiot and therefore can't be "a good american".

Sorry not to have been clear enough. :p

How can it be personal if i don't know who wrote it in first place ?

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[Crane]

This is floating around the web. I thought it was an interesting debate topic.......

CAN A GOOD MUSLIM BE A GOOD AMERICAN ??

>Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of
>Arabia.
>
>Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except
>Islam (Quran, 2:256)
>
>Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam
>and the Quran (Koran).
>
>Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns
>in prayer five times a day.
>
>Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends
>with Christians or Jews.
>
>Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders),
>who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America,
>the great Satan.
>
>Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat
>and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).
>
>Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution
>since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be
>corrupt.
>
>Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow
>freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot
>co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
>
>Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "One Nation Under God," the
>Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as
>heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent
>names.
>
>Therefore after much study and deliberation... perhaps we should be very
>suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both
>"good" Muslims and good Americans.

This is a good reason why the world would be a better place without religion. Some of what you say is true in the most part, so that's why not having Muslim would be good. Christianity has caused much hatred and persecution over the years, so that's why not having Christianity would be good. Scientology just flat out doesn't make sense (haha just kidding...but not really...it doesn't...no offense to any out there) so that's why it would be good not to have that. IMO any religion is not good for the world. Yeah I know I am a Buddhist as well of an atheist but Buddhism is mainly an atheistic belief system of spirituality. So yeah. Religion all around creates hate and intolerance which would make me happy if the world was free from it.

[justifyothers]

This is a good reason why the world would be a better place without religion. Some of what you say is true in the most part, so that's why not having Muslim would be good. Christianity has caused much hatred and persecution over the years, so that's why not having Christianity would be good. Scientology just flat out doesn't make sense (haha just kidding...but not really...it doesn't...no offense to any out there) so that's why it would be good not to have that. IMO any religion is not good for the world. Yeah I know I am a Buddhist as well of an atheist but Buddhism is mainly an atheistic belief system of spirituality. So yeah. Religion all around creates hate and intolerance which would make me happy if the world was free from it.

I agree with you and apparently, so did Jesus. He denounced the religion of that day and its leaders - calling them "hypocrites", "brood of vipers", and "blind leaders of the blind". I think this could easily apply to religions today.

He criticized them openly for 'teaching as doctrine the commandments of men". That was a very exclusionary group - even keeping out the neediest of their community because of leprosy and poverty. I think this is why he was sent. To bring the message that God was everyone's God - not just for the wealthy. He taught that the kingdom of God is within - the 'rule of God' happens internally and individually and is available to ALL.

It's interesting that he spent most of his time in the company of the 'sinners' and 'outcasts' of that day - I wonder where he would hang out today. Probably not in a multi-million dollar church with stained-glass windows and walnut pews! It is actually this teaching that caused me to question religions, churches and ultimately the OT, which teaches the very behavior he spoke out against.

But God is still here, as Jesus said, in spirit is where we find Him. It is possible to get past all the dogma and still seek God. (thank God)

[Crane]

He criticized them openly for 'teaching as doctrine the commandments of men". That was a very exclusionary group - even keeping out the neediest of their community because of leprosy and poverty. I think this is why he was sent. To bring the message that God was everyone's God - not just for the wealthy. He taught that the kingdom of God is within - the 'rule of God' happens internally and individually and is available to ALL.

It's interesting that he spent most of his time in the company of the 'sinners' and 'outcasts' of that day - I wonder where he would hang out today. Probably not in a multi-million dollar church with stained-glass windows and walnut pews! It is actually this teaching that caused me to question religions, churches and ultimately the OT, which teaches the very behavior he spoke out against.

Did you know that those teaching were all originally created by Buddha? who was born more than 600 years before Jesus was. So in actuality, Commandments 5-10 were all from Buddhist teachings. If you want you can even look it up.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything after you just agreed with me but this is a topic not many people who believe in god realize, and thought you might be interested in knowing.

[justifyothers]

He criticized them openly for 'teaching as doctrine the commandments of men". That was a very exclusionary group - even keeping out the neediest of their community because of leprosy and poverty. I think this is why he was sent. To bring the message that God was everyone's God - not just for the wealthy. He taught that the kingdom of God is within - the 'rule of God' happens internally and individually and is available to ALL.

It's interesting that he spent most of his time in the company of the 'sinners' and 'outcasts' of that day - I wonder where he would hang out today. Probably not in a multi-million dollar church with stained-glass windows and walnut pews! It is actually this teaching that caused me to question religions, churches and ultimately the OT, which teaches the very behavior he spoke out against.

Did you know that those teaching were all originally created by Buddha? who was born more than 600 years before Jesus was. So in actuality, Commandments 5-10 were all from Buddhist teachings. If you want you can even look it up.

I'm not trying to insult you or anything after you just agreed with me but this is a topic not many people who believe in god realize, and thought you might be interested in knowing.

I did actually know that. And I do feel like the originator of that religion was divinely inspired. It's amazing how close his teachings are to those of Jesus. These are the teachings that make sense, transcend time, and better humanity in general. I enjoy the teachings of the Dahli Lama.

My only objection is the reverence toward the man and not God, who in my view enlightened him. I think this has happened to God since day 1. We are always placing trust and attributing wisdom to something/someone other than Him. Same thing happened with Jesus. Jesus was a wonderful teacher, but not God. And I think over & over since time began man has misplaced the loyalty to someone other than God.

We wanted to worship the sun, the moon, wooden idols, wise men, etc. Everything and anything but the true God. I think believing and trusting 'spirit' is difficult for us - but not impossible.

You didn't insult me.
I am here to learn and view the perspectives of others and I thank you for bringing it up.

[Crane]

Do you think it could have been possible that he was just a wise young boy with the right idea on how people should treat one another? (Forgot to mention he also created the golden rule hehe)

[justifyothers]

Do you think it could have been possible that he was just a wise young boy with the right idea on how people should treat one another? (Forgot to mention he also created the golden rule hehe)

HHHHHHMMMMMMMMM........this is a good question. Not sure if you meant Buddah or Jesus though. But my answer my very well fit both....

The teachings of both men were new at the time, (although I understand the 'golden rule' has been weaved through many different religions over time.) They definitely brought new ideas and peaceful answers for many. But it seems like there was something more to these men than just their philosophy.

People SAW something there - something different. Something that made them listen and understand and in many cases, change their lives. It wasn't just the commandments or golden rules. There was a 'spiritual' sense about these men. I think they had acheived a special oneness with God that was evident to those around them.

Thomas Jefferson was a forward thinker for his time - very wise man and people respected what he said and did. He was a good leader for that time and even today is well thought of - but we don't attribute anything more to him such as some kind of divine enlightenment. He believed in God (not christianity, but God). But his effect on people was limited.

In looking back, I think you meant Buddah with your thought above. Do you think he was a wise boy only and not inspired by God?

[Crane]

Yes I do in fact. He cared about the world and the people in it, which was rare for adults back then and even more for young children. That's what people saw in him. They looked up to him because they were amazed at how such a young and innocent child, born into royalty who could have anything his heart desired, chose to live in the streets with disadvantaged people and worked to enlighten the world and tried to create it into something it wasn't. People looked up to Jesus with the same eyes. He was starting somewhat of a revolt against the Romans and people were impressed by that. They saw them like how we see our heroes today. We see them as great people and how they search to change the world. Just like back then, except it was even more amazing because it was very uncommon long ago.

[justifyothers]

Yes I do in fact. He cared about the world and the people in it, which was rare for adults back then and even more for young children. That's what people saw in him. They looked up to him because they were amazed at how such a young and innocent child, born into royalty who could have anything his heart desired, chose to live in the streets with disadvantaged people and worked to enlighten the world and tried to create it into something it wasn't. People looked up to Jesus with the same eyes. He was starting somewhat of a revolt against the Romans and people were impressed by that. They saw them like how we see our heroes today. We see them as great people and how they search to change the world. Just like back then, except it was even more amazing because it was very uncommon long ago.

Amazing kid he was! Amazing man Jesus was! Although I do think Jesus' mission was more to bring the idea that God is available to all of us - in a way to introduce the true meaning of God. Seems like through the Jewish religion that meaning had gotten abused and destroyed.

But at the end of the day - changing the world in our little corner is what the message is. And if we are both trying to do that - then in my view we are both fulfilling God's will on earth. And we'll be OK !

[Crane]

Well put. You believe in God, I don't but we agree on the same thing so it's all good. Not much else to say, is there.