Christian Socialism.

[jcrawford]

Since Martin Luther King was a Christian activist and socialist who successfully advocated and advanced the cause of equality and civil rights in the USA, would most American Christians not be better off if they studied and revived the non-violent techniques and practices of Christian Socialism in order to advance the religious teachings, principles and practices of Christianity within the framework of US politics and government today?

A Google search for Christian Socialism will reveal that its history dates back to the late 19th Century in some European countries, and while never a major force in any country's politics and government, must have given immense satisfaction to those Christians who participated in such a social organization and movement.

Some of the reasons why Christian Socialism might be a cause whose time has come in America is that secular socialism has already established deep roots in our social consciousness ever since its inauguration by FDR during the Great Depression, and the social gospel of Christ seems to have fallen by the wayside with the rise of secular humanism. Now that the US and Europe are caught up in a war between Islamic and Jewish socialists, I see no legitimate reason for US secular socialists to discrimate against Christian Socialism at home and abroad.

Questions for discussion and debate:

How might Christian Socialism improve the lives of Christian citizens?

What legitimate opposition might arise to a Christian socialist movement and from whom?

Do Christians have the right to form their own societies, political parties and governments?

What does or should the concept of sovereignty mean to Christians, and in whom would Christian Socialists recognize it as being invested?

Would it be intolerant or discriminatory on the part of any group to deny that Christian Socialists can organize themselves politically?

What other forms of government besides a Union of Christian Socialist States or a Christian Socialist Republic would be ammenable for conscienscious and law-abiding Christian citizens to live under?

How would Christian families benefit from living under a non-Christian government such as the former USSR, or under any form of socialism that is not specifically Christian?

What does the free exercise and pursuit of religious happiness mean to you personally?

In what year was the US Constitution ordained by the former Christian subjects of His Majesty, George III, King of England?

[Confused]

1) No, I don't favor socialism

The only alternative in the US is Christian, Jewish and Islamic Capitalism.

2) MLK's cause wasn't righteous because of some delusional belief you have in your mind. It was righteous because equality should be an inherent right for any US citizen. You should have the same opportunities regardless of your race, sex. or religious convictions.

Then Jews, Christians and Muslims have as much right to establish their own form of governments as "equal opportunity" secularists do.

Before you spout out absolute nonesense, take a few history courses because you really give the African-American movement a bad name.

The African-American movement for civil rights is a Christian Socialist movement, unless for some strange reason, you would call MLK, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton capitalist and secular pigs.

Actually, I would call the "wonderful Jesse Jackson" a freakin idiot and an embarrassment to the African-American movement adn Al Sharpton wouldn't be to far behind. To put their names in the same sentence, let alone category, as MLK is an insult to MLK. MLK gave his life to his purpose and it had nothing to do with being a Christian purpose. Jesse Jackson, IMHO, is on overzealous extremist who thinks that "black rage" is a defense for the murdering of a white boss by a black employee on the grounds that the "black employee" is acting on his frustration of past pent up anger over what his ancestors had to endure. It is extremists like that who give movements a bad name. Hmmm, I wonder, do you give Christians a good name or a bad name?

[jcrawford]

Actually, I would call the "wonderful Jesse Jackson" a freakin idiot and an embarrassment to the African-American movement adn Al Sharpton wouldn't be to far behind. To put their names in the same sentence, let alone category, as MLK is an insult to MLK. MLK gave his life to his purpose and it had nothing to do with being a Christian purpose. Jesse Jackson, IMHO, is on overzealous extremist who thinks that "black rage" is a defense for the murdering of a white boss by a black employee on the grounds that the "black employee" is acting on his frustration of past pent up anger over what his ancestors had to endure. It is extremists like that who give movements a bad name. Hmmm, I wonder, do you give Christians a good name or a bad name?

Despite socialist extremists of every stripe and persuasion Christians need to become more active in all political parties and social movements throughout the world in order to establish true justice and good government over all areas of their lives. Too much is at stake in the world to permit bigoted secular and Islamic socialists to impose their totalitarian systems of government on Christians throughout the world.

[Confused]

Actually, I would call the "wonderful Jesse Jackson" a freakin idiot and an embarrassment to the African-American movement adn Al Sharpton wouldn't be to far behind. To put their names in the same sentence, let alone category, as MLK is an insult to MLK. MLK gave his life to his purpose and it had nothing to do with being a Christian purpose. Jesse Jackson, IMHO, is on overzealous extremist who thinks that "black rage" is a defense for the murdering of a white boss by a black employee on the grounds that the "black employee" is acting on his frustration of past pent up anger over what his ancestors had to endure. It is extremists like that who give movements a bad name. Hmmm, I wonder, do you give Christians a good name or a bad name?

Despite socialist extremists of every stripe and persuasion Christians need to become more active in all political parties and social movements throughout the world in order to establish true justice and good government over all areas of their lives. Too much is at stake in the world to permit bigoted secular and Islamic socialists to impose their totalitarian systems of government on Christians throughout the world.

I think getting involved is a noble cause, but do it for the right reasons.

Now, I am going to get this off my chest. Would it kill you to show some repect to anyone with a difference of opinion. I am about sick and tired of hearing your continuous degrading, demoralizing, rude, and intentional insults against everyone and anyone who may hold a different view than you. Though I have yet to see any intentional direct attack on you individually for simply being a Christian, nor have I seen any direct attacks on Christians in general, you continue to insult and attack everyone else simply because of differing in opinions. You must see yourself as quite the sanctimonious devout Christian. If such is the case, should you not treat others as you want to be treated? Must every other word out of your mouth be a derogatory attack against any other group not in the same mindset as you. Is it to much to ask that you respect those you wish to debate with as you would want them to respect you?

Simply attacking a group rather than a few bad apples in the group is the worst approach you can take. Erradicating the entire Islamic nation because of some extremist terrorists is not right. Just like erradicating the entire Christian population because of extremists who attack everyone else (similar to what you are doing) isn't right. We should view each person based on their individual merits rather than what group, religion, race, or country they belong to.

That being said, Christians have every right to be involved in politics, just as do Jew, Muslims, and any other group. But don't think you deserve any more rights than any other group simply because you percieve yourself as the "righteous" group. Equality is a two way street. MLK wanted equality. Women wanted equality. You seem to want superiority. That is wrong. Plain and simple.

[jcrawford]

Now, I am going to get this off my chest. Would it kill you to show some repect to anyone with a difference of opinion.

No, it would not kill me, but it does pain me to be forced to live under the immoral dictates of secular abortionists, feminazis and homosexists in America while they continue to infect the souls of millions of Christians throughout the world with anti-Christian propaganda and sexual perversions.

I am about sick and tired of hearing your continuous degrading, demoralizing, rude, and intentional insults against everyone and anyone who may hold a different view than you.

Now you know how Christians Socialists and Christian Reconstructionists feel about secular psychosociopaths and sexual perverts in the public schools. We are just using the same rhetorical techniques that atheistic socialists and political perverts have been using on Jews and Christians for over one hundred years now. Soviet socialists and national socialists didn't exactly favor Jews and Christians living under their regimes, but sent them to concentration camps and gulags for daring to oppose atheistic socialism.

Though I have yet to see any intentional direct attack on you individually for simply being a Christian, nor have I seen any direct attacks on Christians in general, you continue to insult and attack everyone else simply because of differing in opinions.

I don't attack any Christians or anyone else who does not attack Christianity, Christian beliefs and the Christian way of life while this forum is full of posters who do. You yourself call for the subordination of the church to the state and the subjection of Christianity and Christian Americans to secular idealism and imperialism.

You must see yourself as quite the sanctimonious devout Christian. If such is the case, should you not treat others as you want to be treated?

Would that you were a sanctified and devout Christian in order to treat you that way.

Must every other word out of your mouth be a derogatory attack against any other group not in the same mindset as you. Is it to much to ask that you respect those you wish to debate with as you would want them to respect you?

I repect your debating style even though you do not respect mine.

Simply attacking a group rather than a few bad apples in the group is the worst approach you can take. Erradicating the entire Islamic nation because of some extremist terrorists is not right. Just like erradicating the entire Christian population because of extremists who attack everyone else (similar to what you are doing) isn't right.

The only people trying to eradicate Jews and Christians during the past century are secular socialists and Islamofanatics.

We should view each person based on their individual merits rather than what group, religion, race, or country they belong to.

While agreeing in general with this principle I don't particularly apply it to abortionists, feminazis, homosexists or other anti-Christian secular perverts who call for the subordination and suppression of Christian politics in government.

That being said, Christians have every right to be involved in politics, just as do Jew, Muslims, and any other group. But don't think you deserve any more rights than any other group simply because you percieve yourself as the "righteous" group. Equality is a two way street. MLK wanted equality. Women wanted equality. You seem to want superiority. That is wrong. Plain and simple.

I'll settle for Christian equality in goverment, public schools and the rest of society along with racial and gender equality as long as secular supremacists don't continue to deny Christians their God-given rights to rule in the name of Jesus Christ, Lord of lords and king of kings.

Deal?

[Cathar1950]

I'll settle for Christian equality in goverment, public schools and the rest of society along with racial and gender equality as long as secular supremacists don't continue to deny Christians their God-given rights to rule in the name of Jesus Christ, Lord of lords and king of kings.

It isn't a deal. It is not equality if the Christians are rule in any name.
They do not have god-given rights to rule in the name of Jesus.
Maybe when and if he returns he may give them the right but not yet.
Many of your so called secular supremacts are just secular as it relates to good govenment. They may also be Christian, Jews, atheist, humanist and Muslims as long as the rule is secular not religious.
You have not shown any Christian ideas, just crazy cultic ideas.
I hope it is not from home schooling.

[jcrawford]

I'll settle for Christian equality in goverment, public schools and the rest of society along with racial and gender equality as long as secular supremacists don't continue to deny Christians their God-given rights to rule in the name of Jesus Christ, Lord of lords and king of kings.

Many of your so called secular supremacts are just secular as it relates to good govenment. They may also be Christian, Jews, atheist, humanist and Muslims as long as the rule is secular not religious.

Why should Jews, Christians and Muslims tolerate atheists and humanists discriminating against them in government on the basis of religion?

[Confused]

I'll settle for Christian equality in goverment, public schools and the rest of society along with racial and gender equality as long as secular supremacists don't continue to deny Christians their God-given rights to rule in the name of Jesus Christ, Lord of lords and king of kings.

Many of your so called secular supremacts are just secular as it relates to good govenment. They may also be Christian, Jews, atheist, humanist and Muslims as long as the rule is secular not religious.

Why should Jews, Christians and Muslims tolerate atheists and humanists discriminating against them in government on the basis of religion?

Funny, the only discriminating I have heard out of this thread has been done by you.

[Confused]

Now, I am going to get this off my chest. Would it kill you to show some repect to anyone with a difference of opinion.

No, it would not kill me, but it does pain me to be forced to live under the immoral dictates of secular abortionists, feminazis and homosexists in America while they continue to infect the souls of millions of Christians throughout the world with anti-Christian propaganda and sexual perversions.

I am about sick and tired of hearing your continuous degrading, demoralizing, rude, and intentional insults against everyone and anyone who may hold a different view than you.

Now you know how Christians Socialists and Christian Reconstructionists feel about secular psychosociopaths and sexual perverts in the public schools. We are just using the same rhetorical techniques that atheistic socialists and political perverts have been using on Jews and Christians for over one hundred years now. Soviet socialists and national socialists didn't exactly favor Jews and Christians living under their regimes, but sent them to concentration camps and gulags for daring to oppose atheistic socialism.

Though I have yet to see any intentional direct attack on you individually for simply being a Christian, nor have I seen any direct attacks on Christians in general, you continue to insult and attack everyone else simply because of differing in opinions.

I don't attack any Christians or anyone else who does not attack Christianity, Christian beliefs and the Christian way of life while this forum is full of posters who do. You yourself call for the subordination of the church to the state and the subjection of Christianity and Christian Americans to secular idealism and imperialism.

You must see yourself as quite the sanctimonious devout Christian. If such is the case, should you not treat others as you want to be treated?

Would that you were a sanctified and devout Christian in order to treat you that way.

Must every other word out of your mouth be a derogatory attack against any other group not in the same mindset as you. Is it to much to ask that you respect those you wish to debate with as you would want them to respect you?

I repect your debating style even though you do not respect mine.

Simply attacking a group rather than a few bad apples in the group is the worst approach you can take. Erradicating the entire Islamic nation because of some extremist terrorists is not right. Just like erradicating the entire Christian population because of extremists who attack everyone else (similar to what you are doing) isn't right.

The only people trying to eradicate Jews and Christians during the past century are secular socialists and Islamofanatics.

We should view each person based on their individual merits rather than what group, religion, race, or country they belong to.

While agreeing in general with this principle I don't particularly apply it to abortionists, feminazis, homosexists or other anti-Christian secular perverts who call for the subordination and suppression of Christian politics in government.

That being said, Christians have every right to be involved in politics, just as do Jew, Muslims, and any other group. But don't think you deserve any more rights than any other group simply because you percieve yourself as the "righteous" group. Equality is a two way street. MLK wanted equality. Women wanted equality. You seem to want superiority. That is wrong. Plain and simple.

I'll settle for Christian equality in goverment, public schools and the rest of society along with racial and gender equality as long as secular supremacists don't continue to deny Christians their God-given rights to rule in the name of Jesus Christ, Lord of lords and king of kings.

Deal?

1) How is it equality if you wish to rule? That isn't equality, it is supremacy. Dictatorship.
2) What Christian politics is being suppressed by abortionists, etc...? None. You know why. Christianity isn't politics, it is doctrine. You have every right to practice it, none is denying you that. But you don't have the right to force it upon everyone else. Once again, you favor supremacy over equality. You have no right to dicatate what a woman can or can't do with her body. You have no right to say that if two men wish to live together etc... that they cannot. You are not the judge, jury, or executioner. You wish to dictate Gods law. What right have you. Where in the bible does it say you have to right to police mankind? Is that not Gods job? Christ preached to love your neighbor, forgive your enemy, and judge not lest you be judged. You instead preach erradicating your enemies, suppressing your neighbors unless they ascribe to your dictate, and judging how things should be done, by who, and when. You are not God. Nor can I find any Christian doctrine in your posts. Instead, I find hate, discrimination, dictation, oppression, and flat out evil. Rather than pretending to be God, perhaps you should spend more time on your knees praying to God for forgiveness for you pathetic insubordination in your attempts to pretend you are Him and have been empowered with His rights to judge and condemn. You want to know who is persecuting Christians in todays world? You and those like you who are hypocrites. You hide behind a book and claim that book gives you the right to force others to do your will, not Gods will. You blame the secular humanists because they put their rights above yours. Perhaps you should look in the mirror t find the real blame. But no. Instead you will continue on your self percieved self-righteousness and pretend your quest is Gods will when what it truly is is your selfishness and hateful quest to suppress all who don't follow your misguided interpretation of who God is and what He stands for. Atheists on this forum have given you far too much respect for far to long. You deserve no respect. You had shown that you have yet to earn even an acknowledgement. Myself, I am over you. Rather than attempt to reason with you, give you the respect I would wish upon myself, I choose to ignore you as I would any other insignificant sociopath. Best wishes on you self-serving agenda, and at least I can rest in the fact that should God exist, I may end up in hell for failing to find Him, I can guarantee you will end up there for your success in exploiting Him for your own personal agenda to make yourself seem so important as to be doing His work, like you, a mere human could ever do His work. See you in hell.

[Cathar1950]

I'll settle for Christian equality in goverment, public schools and the rest of society along with racial and gender equality as long as secular supremacists don't continue to deny Christians their God-given rights to rule in the name of Jesus Christ, Lord of lords and king of kings.

Many of your so called secular supremacts are just secular as it relates to good govenment. They may also be Christian, Jews, atheist, humanist and Muslims as long as the rule is secular not religious.

Why should Jews, Christians and Muslims tolerate atheists and humanists discriminating against them in government on the basis of religion?

I can't help but agree with Confused.
I don't see Christians being discriminated against at least not in this country.
It is the opposite; here Christians are doing the discriminating often in the name of God or the bible view they hold. It is the atheist and humanist that stand up for your rights to believe while you seem to be complaining about their rights not to believe.
You have tax-free churches, wealth and ministers.
In a secular society all rights are upheld as long as they are not considered harmful or illegal and we have a system that has protected human rights. Granted it falls short but it is not the Christians that are suffering due to religion.

Jews, Christians and Muslims do not always tolerate atheists and humanists or liberals.
Yet each of these groups has members that are humanist and liberals.
Religions that run countries don’t have a good track record any more then atheist would have running a country at the expense of freedoms and rights.
Atheist, Liberals and Humanists are not running around aborting Christian fetuses.
You have churches and you don’t need to bring your religion into our laws or government on a belief that is largely irrational and based on a collection of writings that are not even agreed upon as to there meanings and authority.
If you want to be left alone stay out of everyone’s life unless they want you there. Have your own schools but if they don’t meet the standards of public schools don’t expect to get jobs or higher education. If you teach lies like there was no holocaust then you need to be informed.

[MagusYanam]

First off, as an actual Christian socialist I may be able to forward a stipulation on the meaning of 'Christian socialist'. Most Christian socialists these days are people of Christian cultural background who see in the Gospel a message of social and economic justice that respects all human life and dignity.

Socialism is inherently democratic, and even in a Christian form (actually, especially in a Christian form) it has to be egalitarian: what I take from the basic premises of Christian socialism is that whether someone is atheist or Jewish or Christian or Buddhist or Islamic doesn't and shouldn't particularly matter, what does is that they are human and that they are treated with the same dignity befitting all human beings. Such is necessary to do God's will on Earth as it is done in Heaven.

Now you know how Christians Socialists and Christian Reconstructionists feel about secular psychosociopaths and sexual perverts in the public schools.

Um, what? Did you even go to a public school?

Having spent all but two years of my primary educational life in public schools, I can pretty safely say that I saw no sexual perversion, psychopathy or sociopathy in the teachers or the staff. (A few of the students were another matter, but the schools were doing their best with them.) So, um, yeah, I'll tell you how this Christian socialist feels 'about secular psychosociopaths and sexual perverts in the public schools'. It's not a big enough problem to be mentioning at moment.

Let's start by dealing with the sociopaths and perverts in our national government - seems to be epidemic among the Bushies.

We are just using the same rhetorical techniques that atheistic socialists and political perverts have been using on Jews and Christians for over one hundred years now.

Since when do two wrongs make a right?

Soviet socialists and national socialists didn't exactly favor Jews and Christians living under their regimes, but sent them to concentration camps and gulags for daring to oppose atheistic socialism.

There were no socialists in the Soviet Union. Or if there were they were quickly silenced. The prevailing political theory in the Soviet Union was not socialism, it was Bolshevism (particularly the brand known as Stalinism). And perhaps you should study some political terminology as well as history - the Nazis (National-Socialists, not actual socialists - they bore more resemblance to fascism) persecuted socialists of every stripe, Christian, Jewish or agnostic/atheist. They happened to be just under the Jews when it came to the people being rounded up into the concentration camps.

I don't attack any Christians or anyone else who does not attack Christianity, Christian beliefs and the Christian way of life while this forum is full of posters who do. You yourself call for the subordination of the church to the state and the subjection of Christianity and Christian Americans to secular idealism and imperialism.

You shouldn't be attacking anybody. Not only is it un-Christian to attack non-Christians, it is against the rules of the forum.

You don't get to be Christian only when it's convenient.

The only people trying to eradicate Jews and Christians during the past century are secular socialists and Islamofanatics.

Um... no. Secular socialists (quite a fair few of them themselves Jewish) derived a lot of their support from Christians and I have yet to see where a socialist government ever tried to suppress responsible Christian practise.

I'll settle for Christian equality in goverment, public schools and the rest of society along with racial and gender equality as long as secular supremacists don't continue to deny Christians their God-given rights to rule in the name of Jesus Christ, Lord of lords and king of kings.

So everyone gets to be equal, but Christians get to be more equal than everybody else. Nice Orwellian twist there.