Gay Adoption in the UK

[Furrowed Brow]

New equal rights legislation is being implemented in the UK concerning gay adoptions. Gay partners cannot in future be descriminated agianst when applying to adopt a child. The Catholic church and church or England have lobbied to be exempt from the legislation on grounds of conscience. The Catholic church has threatened to close down its adoption agencies if forced to comply. However it looks like their lobbying has failed and they will have to comply with the legislation within 21 months.

Question: Should religion be allowed an opt out of legislation due to conscience?

[micatala]

Question: Should religion be allowed an opt out of legislation due to conscience?

My gut reaction to this is yes, they should. We have laws about discrimination based on religious belief. Should the Catholic Church be forced to hire a Buddhist who is otherwise qualified to read mass, perform weddings, baptisms and funerals? It seems absurd.

But then I think that there is a difficulty about where to draw the line. Should an overtly racist religion be permitted? We already have a number of overtly sexist ones. What about criminal law? Should religion get a by on that?

So, in the end, I think that the law should apply equally to all organizations regardless of religion or non-religion.

I think the law is always a bit of a balancing act. One groups freedoms offset another groups rights. However I worry where this legislation is taken us.

Previously the Catholic adoptions agencies were bound by just the same legislation as the rest of us. They would have to treat Gay adoptions enquiries within the law, which meant they would pass the enquiry on to agencies that dealt with Gay adoptions. This seems a pretty sensible arrangement to me. One that should not offend anyone. But the new legislation insists that the Catholic/Christian agencies can no longer just pass the enquiry over, they have to handle it themselves.

To me this doesn’t sound like equality for Gays but a concerted effort to stamp out any inkling of anti Gay sentiment. And I think there is a subtle difference of a concerted effort to create equality, and an ideology of intolerance hiding behind that effort. Ideology of intolerance? Well I think the more social or liberal the philosophy, the greater the tendency to see ones philosophy as morally superior to the alternatives, and the greater the capacity to squash alternative viewpoints.

The media is always keen to pick up on examples. This one makes me smile but is also a tad worrying. 9 firemen who refused to hand out leaflets at a Gay pride march sent for diversity training . How long before every school, business and institution will have its own political attaché? Phone lines set up to report incorrect social attitudes? Re-education programmes initiated. Careers put on hold unless one toes the party line.

Actually - though done with soft gloves this is already happening. Maybe this is right. Maybe it is the way it should be. But if your job or income currently depends on Government it simply does not pay to think about these issues, let alone openly doubt them.

It seems to me the devil is in the details. The article cited reports:

The nine firefighters are based at Cowcaddens and were asked to distribute community safety advice to people attending the Pride Scotia festival in George Square on 24 June.

A fire service spokesman earlier said the firefighters' refusal was a "fundamental breach of their core responsibilities".

"Firefighters cannot, and will not, pick and choose to whom they offer fire safety advice.

This does not seem to be a case where the fire fighters were somehow asked to endorse or even condone homosexuality. It looks more like taking advantage of a mass gathering to distribute information.

I can understand being concerned about taunts and jeering, and if this occurred, it would be unfortunate and not speak well of those doing it. However, public officials, including policemen many times, suffer this kind of abuse routinely.

[Greatest I Am]

New equal rights legislation is being implemented in the UK concerning gay adoptions. Gay partners cannot in future be discriminated against when applying to adopt a child. The Catholic church and church or England have lobbied to be exempt from the legislation on grounds of conscience. The Catholic church has threatened to close down its adoption agencies if forced to comply. However it looks like their lobbying has failed and they will have to comply with the legislation within 21 months.

Question: Should religion be allowed an opt out of legislation due to conscience?

If the Church is to engage in a civic practice then It must follow the civil law.
If this goes against their conscience they can refrain from participation in this practice.

Yes. But the question indicates that they cannot opt out at present. This not the case. They can close these adoption centers.

Regards
DL

[Furrowed Brow]

Interesting development I read in my paper today. Apparently as part of the adoption process potential adoptive parents have to see a Doctor. Some Doctor's are now also seeking a get out clause of conscience. Currently they are allowed one for abortion; though they do have to refer patients to another Doctor who will assist. However the government have made it clear that no one gets a conscience clause, with this new equality legislation. No one. So should Doctor's get a cop out clause? should they be allowed to refer gays to another doctor?

[McCulloch]

Interesting development I read in my paper today. Apparently as part of the adoption process potential adoptive parents have to see a Doctor. Some Doctor's are now also seeking a get out clause of conscience. Currently they are allowed one for abortion; though they do have to refer patients to another Doctor who will assist. However the government have made it clear that no one gets a conscience clause, with this new equality legislation. No one. So should Doctor's get a cop out clause? should they be allowed to refer gays to another doctor?

[sarcasm]Yes. And they should be allowed to reject Jamaican, Chinese or Hindu patients if it does not suit them either. [/sarcasm]

[Katsuro]

No they should not be exempt. Why should they? Why should they be allowed to not follow the laws that others have to obey just because of their religion? That's in itself a form of religious discrimination.

If you allow exemptions like this you could get yourself exempt from any law because it's part of your religion.

It's ridiculous anyway. Apparently the Catholic Church does allow single gay men/women to adopt from their agencies (even before the new law). But allowing married gay couples is not ok? What?