Four chambers of Hell

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placebofactor
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Four chambers of Hell

Post #1

Post by placebofactor »

The teaching of hell in many churches is rapidly declining; Someone wrote, “Hell disappeared, and no one noticed.” When Lucifer fell, according to Revelation 12, one-third of the angelic host was taken with him. A third were swept away, and of them, many that fell are loose upon the earth today, but not all!

Ephesians 6:12, “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides (remains) on him.”

From this verse we can understand there are two paths; the first is the way of the Lord Jesus, and the second, is any and every other way. There are two crowds: The few who find life and those who choose destruction. There are also two destinies, life and destruction.

Joel 3:14, “Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.”

Hell:
In a general sense hell may be referred to as the “nether world”, or the underworld where the lost go. But the scriptures reveal there are four parts of the underworld, Tartarus, the Abyss, Hades, and Gehenna.
Let’s begin with Tartarus and the Abyss. The only mention of the word is found in,

2 Peter 2:4, “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (Tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”

From this verse, we may glean that certain angels sinned against God and were cast down to Tartarus, Greek is, (tattaroo) which means “Cast down into Tartarus.”
Jude 6, “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he (God) has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

The Bible teaches that Tartarus is a place where certain fallen angels have been cast, and delivered “Into the chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.”
Who are these angels? They are a certain order who served the LORD, but then sinned against Him. They then followed Lucifer to the newly created earth. Tartarus is a permanent place of confinement for these particular fallen spirits who are to be held until the Great White Throne judgment.

The Abyss.
In Luke 8:26-33, we read about a man in the region of Gadarenes, possessed of many devils. Jesus sees this man, and from the man’s mouth, the devils cry out to the Lord, “What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? The Lord commands them to come out of the man, then asks them by what name are they called. They replied, “Legion: because many devils were entered into the man. And they besought him that he (Jesus) would not command them to go into the deep.”

The Lord acknowledged their request and sent them, out of the man, into a herd of swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake and were drowned. The phrase, Verse 31, “Go out into the deep,” is also, “go out into the Abyss.” This word deep is also found in Revelation 9:1-12. What they describe is the 5th trumpet judgment, and we have the Abyss referred to three times, and the word “pit” used five different times.

Abyss is the same word Luke 8:31 uses, it’s the place where these fallen demon spirits were cast. The word “pit” is a word used for, a well, or a shaft. It has been translated literally, as “The shaft of the Abyss.”
It’s also referred to in Revelation 11:7, “And when they (God’s two witnesses) shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit (shaft) shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.” Also,

Revelation 13:8, “The beast that thou saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder; whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”

So, the shaft of the Abyss is a place of temporary confinement for fallen angels, or demons, who will be released at the 5th trumpet judgment for five months to torment those who dwell on the earth in the coming Tribulation. See also, Revelation 13:4-5; “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (3 ½ Years).”

We can see how closely the Beast and Satan are identified with one another because the Beast is said to have also ascended out of the bottomless pit (Hades).
The final mention is in, Revelation 20:1-3, “And I (John) saw and angel come down from heaven, having he key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.”

Hades:
The third part of the underworld, Hades. In the King James Bible, two different Greek words Hades and Gehenna are usually translated, “Hell.” Luke 16:23-24, gives us a clear description of what Hades is like. “And in hell he (the rich man) lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus (the poor man) in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”

It’s obvious here, that the rich man is in a conscious state of torment because he asked Lazarus to come and dip his finger in water and put it on his tongue. Thayer’s Greek to English Lexicon defines Hades as, ‘the invisible, or unseen.” Thayer’s says, “Thus it (Hades) refers to the common receptacle of disembodied spirits,” which means a spirit without a physical body. So, the word reveals to us that upon death, the spirit of a man is separated from the body. The spirit will go either to be with the Lord or to Hades. Hades is used ten times in the New Testament, the first in,

Matthew 11:23, Jesus said of the people in Capernaum, “And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell (Hades): for it the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it (Sodom) would have remained until this day.”

In 2 Peter 2:9, the word Hades is not used, but Peter clearly describes what’s going on there. 2 Peter 2:9, “The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.”

Let’s examine two key words in this verse, the first is “reserved” meaning “kept.” “Reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment.” It’s a present tense verb, and means, “being held captive continuously.” To say it another way, “Those who have died without Jesus Christ, their souls are now in Hades, being kept, or held captive continuously.”

This puts to bed the teaching of soul sleep. When a person dies the literal body does sleep; it goes into the grave, but the soul goes immediately into the presence of the Lord Jesus, or immediately to Hades.

Revelation 1:18, “I (Jesus) am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell (Hades) and of death.” Jesus is the sovereign ruler, and He alone has the keys of Hades and of death. In Revelation 6:8, we read about the 4th horseman of the Apocalypse:

“And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell (Hades) followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”

When the rider on the pale horse is loosed, a 4th of the earth’s population shall die, and Hades is there to swallow up their souls as they await judgment. Revelation 20:13-15, “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (hades) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Again, we see that Hades is a temporary place of confinement for the souls of the lost. Revelation 20 reveals that, from Adam until the end of time, the bodies of the dead will be resurrected. When the Great White throne judgment takes place, the earth will give up the bodies of the lost, and Hades will give up their souls. Both the body and souls of the lost will be judged, and both shall be cast forever into the lake of fire, meaning Gehenna. The place can be compared to a local jail where criminals are held temporarily, and Gehenna is the final place for the judged, these lost shall forever be separated from the LORD.

1 Corinthians 15:55 which follows the great resurrection and rapture chapters reads, “O death, where is thy sting: O grave (Hades), where is thy victory?”
For us who follow the Lord Jesus, death no longer has a sting, and Hades is no longer a victory for Satan.

Gehenna, also called the “lake of fire.”

The 4th part of the underworld is referred to as Gehenna, or “the valley of Hinnom, or the valley of the sons of Hinnom; or, the “second death;” or, “lake of burning Sulphur,” or, “the place of everlasting punishment.”

The following words were directed to the children of Israel, 2 Kings 23:10, “Topheth (place of burning), which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.” Molech or Moloch signifies “king,” or “their king.” Moses warned the people under the penalty of death, not to dedicate their children to Moloch, by making them pass through the fire in honor of this pagan god. Also, the LORD threatened to pour out his wrath against such offenders.

In allusion to this, the fire kept up in the valley, was in honor of the god Moloch. The Jews frequently offered their children to be burned alive. Hinnom coincided in character with hell and the perpetual fires that were kept burning there to consume the filth of the city, added another similarity to those evils attributed to the place of torment.

Gehenna is used twelve times in the New Testament, and eleven, came from the Lord himself. Matthew 23:33, Jesus is speaking to the scribes and Pharisees, “You serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can you escape the damnation of hell (Gehenna.)”

Gehenna is also the final place of punishment for the unsaved. Hades and death will give up their dead, and the dead will then be cast into the lake of fire. This is always placed at the end of the world after,
Revelation 20-:13-15, “And the sea gave up the dead---; and death and hell delivered up the dead ---- and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Revelation 19:20 tells us the first two inhabitants of Gehenna will be the Antichrist and the False Prophet, this before the 1000 Year reign of Christ begins. In Gehenna, the body, as well as the soul is tormented.

Matthew 10:28, “And fear not them (men) which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him (Jesus Christ) which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).”
So, Gehenna is a place of conscious torment. Mark 9:45-46, “And if thy foot offend thee (makes you sin) cut it off: it is better for you to enter halt (lame) into life, than having two feet to cast into Hell (Gehenna) into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm (sin) dieth not, and the fire in not quenched (put out).”

Again, it’s called, Revelation 20:14, “the second death.” In Jude 13, “The blackness of darkness forever.” 2 Thessalonians 1:9, “Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.”

Matthew 8:12, “The children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Luke 12:47-48, “That servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given (in this life), of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”

Unfortunately, in this modern world the fear of the LORD, the fear of the second death has faded for the most part from church teaching. The current trend in our churches is to omit any teaching of Hell because it’s now seen as some kind of medieval myth.

Let me close with a quote from Robert Murray McCheyne:
“Life is like a stream made up of human beings pouring on and rushing over the brink into eternity. There is no blessing on the Christless dead. They rush into an undone eternity, unpardoned, unholy. You may put their body in a splendid coffin; you may print their name in silver on the lid; you may bring the well-attired company of mourners to the funeral in suits of solemn black; you may lay the coffin slowly in the grave; you may spread the greenest sod above it; you may train the sweetest flowers to grow over it; you may cut a white stone and engrave a gentle epitaph to their memory; BUT, it is still the funeral of a damned soul. You cannot write blessed where God has written “cursed.” He that believeth shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned.”
All we have to do is put faith and trust in the Lord Jesus. He will take care of our position with the Father and in the Kingdom. The Lord himself is the propitiation, the satisfaction for our sins, and that the Father in heaven is well satisfied.

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Re: Four chambers of Hell

Post #11

Post by onewithhim »

placebofactor wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 3:35 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #5]

Universalism: had its beginning with Origen of Alexandria. He was a Hellenistic scholar and one of the early fathers of the church: born in 185 A.D. died in 254 A.D. He studied philosophy under Ammonius, and theology under Clemens Alexandrinus.

The distinguishing characteristic of Universalism is the belief that after death everyone will eventually be saved. No eternal punishment in hell, nor lake of fire.
Their argument, “A loving God would not condemn anyone to eternal torment in hell, or the lake of fire. This would include Satan, fallen angels, Hitler, Nero, Stalin, and every evil person that has ever taken a breath; they shall all be saved.”

Origen wrote, “After long periods the damned themselves shall be released from their torments and restored to a new state of probation.

Like all false teachers, there is no consistency in their teaching. Others claim, that this life is punishment enough. Catholics teach the doctrine of Purgatory. Purgatory is a place or condition of temporary punishment after death where the souls of Christians go to cleanse any remaining sins not satisfied in this life. When this temporary punishment is ended, they like all who died in Christ shall live forever in God’s peace.

The Jehovah Witnesses teach, that there is no hell, and no eternal torment because, in the beginning, death was not inevitable. That man was created to live forever, and that death is a physical consequence of Adam's original sin, it being a violation of God’s divine law. Witnesses believe, Jesus Christ paid the ransom of a perfect human life, therefore, releasing mankind from sin and death. One day “death will be no more,” and humans will have the opportunity to enjoy perfect lives.

Your thoughts.
You're right about what Jehovah's Witnesses teach. There is one adjustment however. They teach that there is no hellfire. "Hell" is simply the grave. It does not compare with Gehenna or the lake of fire. KJV translators messed up the rendering of "hell" and "Gehenna" and "the lake of fire," showing erroneously that they all mean the same thing. If one goes back to the original words, from the Greek language, they will see where Gehenna is mentioned and where "Hades" (the grave, translated as "hell") actually is in the verses. Gehenna is translated as "hell" by the KJV, which is spurious. Young's Literal Translation is a fine example of translating, and shows where "Gehenna" appears in the verses (for example, Matthew 5:22, 29,30) rather than "hell," "hell" being an error of the King James translators.

We teach that there is a "hell," meaning the grave. It is hell-fire that we do not teach. All mention of Gehenna and the lake of fire means, quite simply, the complete destruction of the wicked individual. That one will exist no more.

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Re: Four chambers of Hell

Post #12

Post by placebofactor »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 11:15 am
placebofactor wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 3:35 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #5]

Universalism: had its beginning with Origen of Alexandria. He was a Hellenistic scholar and one of the early fathers of the church: born in 185 A.D. died in 254 A.D. He studied philosophy under Ammonius, and theology under Clemens Alexandrinus.

The distinguishing characteristic of Universalism is the belief that after death everyone will eventually be saved. No eternal punishment in hell, nor lake of fire.
Their argument, “A loving God would not condemn anyone to eternal torment in hell, or the lake of fire. This would include Satan, fallen angels, Hitler, Nero, Stalin, and every evil person that has ever taken a breath; they shall all be saved.”

Origen wrote, “After long periods the damned themselves shall be released from their torments and restored to a new state of probation.

Like all false teachers, there is no consistency in their teaching. Others claim, that this life is punishment enough. Catholics teach the doctrine of Purgatory. Purgatory is a place or condition of temporary punishment after death where the souls of Christians go to cleanse any remaining sins not satisfied in this life. When this temporary punishment is ended, they like all who died in Christ shall live forever in God’s peace.

The Jehovah Witnesses teach, that there is no hell, and no eternal torment because, in the beginning, death was not inevitable. That man was created to live forever, and that death is a physical consequence of Adam's original sin, it being a violation of God’s divine law. Witnesses believe, Jesus Christ paid the ransom of a perfect human life, therefore, releasing mankind from sin and death. One day “death will be no more,” and humans will have the opportunity to enjoy perfect lives.

Your thoughts.
You're right about what Jehovah's Witnesses teach. There is one adjustment however. They teach that there is no hellfire. "Hell" is simply the grave. It does not compare with Gehenna or the lake of fire. KJV translators messed up the rendering of "hell" and "Gehenna" and "the lake of fire," showing erroneously that they all mean the same thing. If one goes back to the original words, from the Greek language, they will see where Gehenna is mentioned and where "Hades" (the grave, translated as "hell") actually is in the verses. Gehenna is translated as "hell" by the KJV, which is spurious. Young's Literal Translation is a fine example of translating, and shows where "Gehenna" appears in the verses (for example, Matthew 5:22, 29,30) rather than "hell," "hell" being an error of the King James translators.

We teach that there is a "hell," meaning the grave. It is hell-fire that we do not teach. All mention of Gehenna and the lake of fire means, quite simply, the complete destruction of the wicked individual. That one will exist no more.
Mark 9:43-44, "If your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (Gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

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Re: Four chambers of Hell

Post #13

Post by onewithhim »

placebofactor wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:24 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 11:15 am
placebofactor wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 3:35 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #5]

Universalism: had its beginning with Origen of Alexandria. He was a Hellenistic scholar and one of the early fathers of the church: born in 185 A.D. died in 254 A.D. He studied philosophy under Ammonius, and theology under Clemens Alexandrinus.

The distinguishing characteristic of Universalism is the belief that after death everyone will eventually be saved. No eternal punishment in hell, nor lake of fire.
Their argument, “A loving God would not condemn anyone to eternal torment in hell, or the lake of fire. This would include Satan, fallen angels, Hitler, Nero, Stalin, and every evil person that has ever taken a breath; they shall all be saved.”

Origen wrote, “After long periods the damned themselves shall be released from their torments and restored to a new state of probation.

Like all false teachers, there is no consistency in their teaching. Others claim, that this life is punishment enough. Catholics teach the doctrine of Purgatory. Purgatory is a place or condition of temporary punishment after death where the souls of Christians go to cleanse any remaining sins not satisfied in this life. When this temporary punishment is ended, they like all who died in Christ shall live forever in God’s peace.

The Jehovah Witnesses teach, that there is no hell, and no eternal torment because, in the beginning, death was not inevitable. That man was created to live forever, and that death is a physical consequence of Adam's original sin, it being a violation of God’s divine law. Witnesses believe, Jesus Christ paid the ransom of a perfect human life, therefore, releasing mankind from sin and death. One day “death will be no more,” and humans will have the opportunity to enjoy perfect lives.

Your thoughts.
You're right about what Jehovah's Witnesses teach. There is one adjustment however. They teach that there is no hellfire. "Hell" is simply the grave. It does not compare with Gehenna or the lake of fire. KJV translators messed up the rendering of "hell" and "Gehenna" and "the lake of fire," showing erroneously that they all mean the same thing. If one goes back to the original words, from the Greek language, they will see where Gehenna is mentioned and where "Hades" (the grave, translated as "hell") actually is in the verses. Gehenna is translated as "hell" by the KJV, which is spurious. Young's Literal Translation is a fine example of translating, and shows where "Gehenna" appears in the verses (for example, Matthew 5:22, 29,30) rather than "hell," "hell" being an error of the King James translators.

We teach that there is a "hell," meaning the grave. It is hell-fire that we do not teach. All mention of Gehenna and the lake of fire means, quite simply, the complete destruction of the wicked individual. That one will exist no more.
Mark 9:43-44, "If your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (Gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
What does it mean that "their worm dieth not"? Are there worms of any description in "hell," as you see it, that don't die? Or is there another meaning to this verse? A fire that will never be quenched is symbolic for everlasting obliteration. (And further, Did Jesus mean to literally cut off one's hand? What was his meaning?)

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Re: Four chambers of Hell

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

placebofactor wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 9:11 am
Four Parts make up the underworld:

Hell: 2 Peter 2:4, "For God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness to be reserved unto judgment."
Since demons were active on earth during the Apostle Pauls day, they evidently have not been restricted to some mythelogical "underworld". (Compare Job 2:2)


To learn more please go to other posts related to...

DEMONS, BIBLE "HELL", and ...HELLFIRE TORTURE DEBUNKED
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Four chambers of Hell

Post #15

Post by Difflugia »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:32 pmWhat does it mean that "their worm dieth not"? Are there worms of any description in "hell," as you see it, that don't die?
It's a reference to Isaiah 66:24. In that verse, the dead bodies of those that fight against Yahweh will burn forever and be infested with immortal maggots as a sign to future generations.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Four chambers of Hell

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:32 pm
placebofactor wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:24 pm
Mark 9:43-44, "If your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (Gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
What does it mean that "their worm dieth not"? Are there worms of any description in "hell," as you see it, that don't die? Or is there another meaning to this verse? A fire that will never be quenched is symbolic for everlasting obliteration. (And further, Did Jesus mean to literally cut off one's hand? What was his meaning?)
I daresay this will lead to a FIFTH level of hell.... "invertebrates hell" where creepy-crawlies are tortured mercilessly. Seriously though, I cannot see why some people cannot grasp the concept of symbolism.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Four chambers of Hell

Post #17

Post by 2timothy316 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 1:43 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:32 pm
placebofactor wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:24 pm
Mark 9:43-44, "If your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (Gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
What does it mean that "their worm dieth not"? Are there worms of any description in "hell," as you see it, that don't die? Or is there another meaning to this verse? A fire that will never be quenched is symbolic for everlasting obliteration. (And further, Did Jesus mean to literally cut off one's hand? What was his meaning?)
I daresay this will lead to a FIFTH level of hell.... "invertebrates hell" where creepy-crawlies are tortured mercilessly. Seriously though, I cannot see why some people cannot grasp the concept of symbolism.
What sin does a worm need to do end up in hell? ;)

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Re: Four chambers of Hell

Post #18

Post by placebofactor »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:32 pm
placebofactor wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:24 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 11:15 am
placebofactor wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 3:35 pm [Replying to onewithhim in post #5]

Universalism: had its beginning with Origen of Alexandria. He was a Hellenistic scholar and one of the early fathers of the church: born in 185 A.D. died in 254 A.D. He studied philosophy under Ammonius, and theology under Clemens Alexandrinus.

The distinguishing characteristic of Universalism is the belief that after death everyone will eventually be saved. No eternal punishment in hell, nor lake of fire.
Their argument, “A loving God would not condemn anyone to eternal torment in hell, or the lake of fire. This would include Satan, fallen angels, Hitler, Nero, Stalin, and every evil person that has ever taken a breath; they shall all be saved.”

Origen wrote, “After long periods the damned themselves shall be released from their torments and restored to a new state of probation.

Like all false teachers, there is no consistency in their teaching. Others claim, that this life is punishment enough. Catholics teach the doctrine of Purgatory. Purgatory is a place or condition of temporary punishment after death where the souls of Christians go to cleanse any remaining sins not satisfied in this life. When this temporary punishment is ended, they like all who died in Christ shall live forever in God’s peace.

The Jehovah Witnesses teach, that there is no hell, and no eternal torment because, in the beginning, death was not inevitable. That man was created to live forever, and that death is a physical consequence of Adam's original sin, it being a violation of God’s divine law. Witnesses believe, Jesus Christ paid the ransom of a perfect human life, therefore, releasing mankind from sin and death. One day “death will be no more,” and humans will have the opportunity to enjoy perfect lives.

Your thoughts.
You're right about what Jehovah's Witnesses teach. There is one adjustment however. They teach that there is no hellfire. "Hell" is simply the grave. It does not compare with Gehenna or the lake of fire. KJV translators messed up the rendering of "hell" and "Gehenna" and "the lake of fire," showing erroneously that they all mean the same thing.

You wrote, " KJV translators messed up the rendering of "hell" and "Gehenna" and "the lake of fire," showing erroneously that they all mean the same thing."

I hate to see anyone, and many thousands do say that the 48 men, plus another 8 or 10 who went over the work of the 48 when they were finished. Men, who were brilliant in their fields, men who wrote books that taught the languages of Greek, Hebrew, Chaldean, on Lexicography, translation etc. Thousands claim these men made mistakes. These scholars of languages and translation were educated at three of the greatest Universities in the world. Cambridge, Oxford, and Westminster.

There were five Greek dialects in Israel when Jesus was alive. Unknown Hebrew words and idioms had to be translated into the Greek. Now consider what you said. If over the past 450 years, thousands of others said what you claim, each having a different opinion on different verses and words of the New Testament, what would you have today? Confusion! And that's exactly the trap the devil has set up. He is the author of confusion. Thousands of different Bibles are being published today, all saying something different. That's my take on the subject.

You wrote, "If one goes back to the original words, from the Greek language, they will see where Gehenna is mentioned and where "Hades" (the grave, translated as "hell") actually is in the verses. Gehenna is translated as "hell" by the KJV, which is spurious. Young's Literal Translation is a fine example of translating and shows where "Gehenna" appears in the verses (for example, Matthew 5:22, 29,30) rather than "hell," "hell" being an error of the King James translators."

A perfect example of what I previously said. The Lexicons and Dictionaries I use disagree. Unless translators have examined the ancient copies personally, and depending on what copies they do examine, they may come up with a different translation of a word or sentence. What I do know is, the K.J.B. translators had more access to the ancient copies because of the power of the King to get them. Today, not so much. The K.J.B. took over 7 years to complete. They were done in 5 or 6 different languages. Each language was compared to the others for accuracy. I really believe the Lord had his hand on that group of men, and the Holy Spirit oversaw the work from start to finish.

You wrote, "We teach that there is a "hell," meaning the grave. It is hell-fire that we do not teach. All mention of Gehenna and the lake of fire means, quite simply, the complete destruction of the wicked individual. That one will exist no more.
Matthew 18:9 speaks of hell fire as the final place of punishment for the unsaved. "Hades and death will give up their dead, and the dead then will be cast into the lake of fire, Gehenna."

Mark 9:43-44, "If your hand offend you, cut it off: it is better for you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (Gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
You asked, "What does it mean that "their worm dieth not"?

Psalms 22:6 answers the question. The whole of Psalms 22 concerns Jesus at the cross and those who crucified him. The Jews said he was a worm. "But I am a worm, and no man: and a reproach of men, and despised of the people." Jesus was considered to be a bad man, a sinner, a worm, a man whose father was the devil. Worm is a metaphor for a sinner, a bad man.


Are there worms of any description in "hell," as you see it, that don't die? Or is there another meaning to this verse? A fire that will never be quenched is symbolic for everlasting obliteration. (And further, Did Jesus mean to literally cut off one's hand? What was his meaning?)
To cut the hand off and be saved, or go through life with both hands as a sinner, a person without God, and be cast into the lake of fire on judgment day.

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Re: Four chambers of Hell

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

placebofactor wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:29 am...Worm is a metaphor for a sinner, a bad man.
The Messiah was not called a worm because he was viewed as immoral/evil but because he was viewed as insignifiant and lowly. There are creatures like goats and snakes which are scripturally associated with evil, but the humble worm or grub, perhaps due or its lack of physical prowess and negligiable intelligence, is not one of them.



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Re: Four chambers of Hell

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Post by placebofactor »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 1:29 pm
placebofactor wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:29 am...Worm is a metaphor for a sinner, a bad man.
The Messiah was not called a worm because he was viewed as immoral/evil but because he was viewed as insignifiant and lowly. There are creatures like goats and snakes which are scripturally associated with evil, but the humble worm or grub, perhaps due or its lack of physical prowess and negligiable intelligence, is not one of them.



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Caiaphas called Jesus a Liar, when he claimed, "I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days." The priest saw him as an enemy to the Temple.

Also, because Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and the Christ." He was being accused of pretending to be the Son of God and Israel's Messiah. In Mark 14:63, The high priest tore his clothes and accused Jesus in verse 64 of blasphemy.

Blasphemy speaks of those who are evil-speaking, slanderers, and revilers.

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