Do Angels have Free Will?

[Purple Knight]

Question for Debate: Do angels have free will?

Do all of them have free will, or only Lucifer? It would make sense, that he was God's favourite, since God gave him the choice, and he praised God by that choice.

If you think the rest of them don't have free will, you probably do, however, need to ignore the Book of Enoch. Which of course the canon of the Bible does. Most of the accepted ones anyway.

[John17_3]

Question for Debate: Do angels have free will?

Do all of them have free will, or only Lucifer? It would make sense, that he was God's favourite, since God gave him the choice, and he praised God by that choice.

If you think the rest of them don't have free will, you probably do, however, need to ignore the Book of Enoch. Which of course the canon of the Bible does. Most of the accepted ones anyway.

Can you define, or explain free will, please?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #8]

I have no means of tracking archangels.

You counted one.

So how many archangels are there, and how do you know that you have counted all of them?

Are you saying you are guessing, and that we should all do that, instead of go with the scriptures?
The Bible says the Chief of the angels - archangel - is Michael. One.

Archangel: an angel of high rank.

The Bible identifies Michael as an archangel.

It does not say how many archangels there are.

The Book of Enoch mentions seven holy angels who are often considered the seven archangels: Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Sariel, Raguel, and Remiel.

[John17_3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #8]

I have no means of tracking archangels.

You counted one.

So how many archangels are there, and how do you know that you have counted all of them?

Are you saying you are guessing, and that we should all do that, instead of go with the scriptures?
The Bible says the Chief of the angels - archangel - is Michael. One.

Archangel: an angel of high rank.

The Bible identifies Michael as an archangel.

It does not say how many archangels there are.

The Book of Enoch mentions seven holy angels who are often considered the seven archangels: Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Sariel, Raguel, and Remiel.

Archangel is derived from Greek archángelos (ἀρχάγγελος), with the Greek prefix arch- meaning 'chief'. A common misconception is that archangels constitute the highest rank of angel in Christianity; this likely stems from the etymology of their name, as well as their presentation in John Milton's Paradise Lost.

Arch-angel in the Greek Scriptures mean chief angel.
Michael is the chief angel.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #8]

I have no means of tracking archangels.

You counted one.

So how many archangels are there, and how do you know that you have counted all of them?

Are you saying you are guessing, and that we should all do that, instead of go with the scriptures?
The Bible says the Chief of the angels - archangel - is Michael. One.

Archangel: an angel of high rank.

The Bible identifies Michael as an archangel.

It does not say how many archangels there are.

The Book of Enoch mentions seven holy angels who are often considered the seven archangels: Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel, Sariel, Raguel, and Remiel.

Archangel is derived from Greek archángelos (ἀρχάγγελος), with the Greek prefix arch- meaning 'chief'. A common misconception is that archangels constitute the highest rank of angel in Christianity; this likely stems from the etymology of their name, as well as their presentation in John Milton's Paradise Lost.

Arch-angel in the Greek Scriptures mean chief angel.
Michael is the chief angel.

Michael and Gabriel are recognized as archangels in Judaism and Islam, and by most Christians. Raphael is also recognized as a chief angel in the Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican and Eastern Orthodox churches. Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael are venerated in the Roman Catholic Church and Lutheran Churches.

Michael is a chief angel.

[John17_3]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #14]

Michael and Gabriel are recognized as archangels in Judaism and Islam, and by most Christians. Raphael is also recognized as a chief angel in the Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican and Eastern Orthodox churches. Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael are venerated in the Roman Catholic Church and Lutheran Churches.

Yes, and Freemasons.
I prefer to stick to the scriptures, as opposed to philosophies of men. Don't you?

Michael is a chief angel.

In the Bible Michael is the chief angel. Jude 1:9
But Michael the archangel, when he was reasoning with the devil, disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring against him a blasphemous judgment, but he said "The Lord rebuke you."

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #14]

Michael and Gabriel are recognized as archangels in Judaism and Islam, and by most Christians. Raphael is also recognized as a chief angel in the Catholic, Lutheran, Anglican and Eastern Orthodox churches. Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael are venerated in the Roman Catholic Church and Lutheran Churches.

Yes, and Freemasons.
I prefer to stick to the scriptures, as opposed to philosophies of men. Don't you?

Michael is a chief angel.

In the Bible Michael is the chief angel. Jude 1:9
But Michael the archangel, when he was reasoning with the devil, disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring against him a blasphemous judgment, but he said "The Lord rebuke you."

Had it been Gabriel it would have read "Gabriel the archangel".

[Difflugia]

In the Bible Michael is the chief angel. Jude 1:9
But Michael the archangel, when he was reasoning with the devil, disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring against him a blasphemous judgment, but he said "The Lord rebuke you."

Is your argument that because of the definite article, Michael is the only archangel? If it is, then Matthew 10:3 apparently means that Matthew was the only tax collector in the Roman Empire.

"Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus"

The two constructions are exactly the same in Greek:

Michael the archangel: Μιχαὴλ ὁ ἀρχάγγελος
Matthew the tax collecor: Μαθθαῖος ὁ τελώνης

[Purple Knight]

Can you define, or explain free will, please?

I don't believe free will exists but let me steelman it.

Free will is the ability to determine our priorities for ourselves.

Not the ability to follow through. An alcoholic who can't help drinking, over and over again, has ruined his life, but doesn't want to do any of that, has free will. It's better if we have the ability to act upon that determination but I don't think there's any world in which being gagged and bound means you don't have free will.

[John17_3]

In the Bible Michael is the chief angel. Jude 1:9
But Michael the archangel, when he was reasoning with the devil, disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring against him a blasphemous judgment, but he said "The Lord rebuke you."

Is your argument that because of the definite article, Michael is the only archangel? If it is, then Matthew 10:3 apparently means that Matthew was the only tax collector in the Roman Empire.

"Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus"

The two constructions are exactly the same in Greek:

Michael the archangel: Μιχαὴλ ὁ ἀρχάγγελος
Matthew the tax collecor: Μαθθαῖος ὁ τελώνης

That is an interesting argument.
The only thing about it, is that it isn't a sound enough argument, because, it would be like saying, because "the" is used with other persons or things, that means that the use of "the" does not mean specifically one, and so, this could mean there is more than one true God. Never mind it says 'the true God'.

The reason expressions such as "Joseph the carpenter", "John the Baptist", Matthew the tax collector", are there, is to distinguish them from others, with those common names. You can read Matthew 10:2-4
If one makes the argument that Michael the archangel, suggests more than one archangel, what argument would that person not make.

It is not here using archangel to differentiate Michael from other Michaels, but identifying Michael's role as the archangel, which means chief angel. The Bible says nothing of more than one chief, and certainly we do not find this role given to Gabriel, or any imagined angel named Raphael.

We know what a chief is.

• noun
  1. One who is highest in rank or authority; a leader.
  2. A chief petty officer.
  3. The chief engineer of a ship.
  4. A supervisor; a boss.
  5. The upper section of a shield.
  6. The head or leader of any body of men; a commander, as of an army; a head man, as of a tribe, clan, or family; a person in authority who directs the work of others; the principal actor or agent.

• adjective
  1. Highest in rank, authority, or office.
     • "the chief scientist in the lab."
  2. Most important or influential.

We never try to justify a claim that there is more than one chief in any order. Why do persons try to do it with Michael?
To claim that the angels are not all under one leader, and that they are separated into different groups under different chiefs, is to go outside the scriptures, and rely on speculation as a basis for truth, which can never be truth.

Why would anyone want to risk that, to try to establish an idea? We want to benefit, by letting God show us the way, don't we?
Note Matthew 25:31
When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne.

That's interesting, isn't it?
That means Gabriel in included, in all the angels. None are left out. All of them take part in executing God's judgment at Armageddon. Who is in charge of all the angels? The son of man - who is like God - Michael. Matthew 16:27

[Capbook]

Question for Debate: Do angels have free will?

Do all of them have free will, or only Lucifer? It would make sense, that he was God's favourite, since God gave him the choice, and he praised God by that choice.

If you think the rest of them don't have free will, you probably do, however, need to ignore the Book of Enoch. Which of course the canon of the Bible does. Most of the accepted ones anyway.

I believe Lucifer in Isaiah 14, Satan and his angels have free will, they chose to make war in heaven.
I understand free will is a choice whether to obey God or not. Some angels chose to follow Satan.

Rev 12:7-8
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.