Hebrews 1:10 - Why did Jehovah address His Son as Lord?

[MissKate13]

Why did Jehovah address His Son as Lord?

The Greek term for Lord is kyrie. It is defined as master. Why would YHWH refer to His Son, Jesus, as master?

10 And: “At the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands. (Hebrews 1:10 NWT)


And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: (Hebrews 1:10 KJV)

[MissKate13]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #7]

Your post talks around Hebrews 1:10, never addressing it.

Be blessed,
Kate

[historia]

The Greek term for Lord is kyrie. It is defined as master.

Christ IS Lord and Master. He is my Lord and my Master.

Surely, you do not think that the Son is Lord or Master over His own God and Father (YHWH)... do you?

While it's true that the Greek term kyrios generally means 'lord' or 'master', in the context in which it is used here in Hebrews it has a more specific meaning.

Hebrews 1:10 is a verbatim quote of Psalm 102:25 as it appears in the LXX (101:26), the Greek translation of the Old Testament: "κατ᾽ ἀρχὰς σύ κύριε τὴν γῆν ἐθεμελίωσας καὶ ἔργα τῶν χειρῶν σού εἰσιν οἱ οὐρανοί." "In the beginning you, Lord, laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands."

'Lord' here is standing in for the Divine Name. It should be understood, then, as Yahweh, not just 'master' or 'lord' in the general sense. The author of Hebrews is taking a psalm addressed to Yahweh and indicates that God has said this about the Son.

[Capbook]

That doesn't make Jesus lord over Jehovah.

Remember in that same chapter you're quoting it ends with, "But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet?" Who is sitting on who's right hand?
Hebrews 1:4,6 says, "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs...And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.” These are the ones Jesus is name Lord over. There is no mention that Jesus became Lord over Jehovah.

If Jesus was God why would Jesus ever need to 'become better than the angels'? As God, wouldn't he already be better?

Jesus doesn't lord over the Father as they are equal.

This sentence makes no sense when compared to Hebrews 1:4, "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs."

He can't be greater, equal to and lower than an angel.

I believe JFB means Jesus in human nature is lower than the angel.Heb 2:9.
To the Father they are equal. Word "Lord" in Heb 1:10.
Lexicon definition of Lord below;

Heb 1:10 - NT:2962 Kurios (a title for God and for Christ) one who exercises supernatural authority over mankind.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.(NIV)

[2timothy316]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #7]

Your post talks around Hebrews 1:10, never addressing it.

Be blessed,
Kate

You can't just look ONE scripture and look yourself to try and figure out what it means. You have to read ALL of the scriptures around it as well to figure out what is the message. One must use exegesis and not eisegesis when reading the Bible. You don't want to comment on Hebrews 1:4 because it undoes your eisegesis of Hebrews 1:10. I'll go as far as to say you do not want to address the whole 1st chapter of Hebrews as when it is read in its entirety doesn't fit your dogma.

[2timothy316]

That doesn't make Jesus lord over Jehovah.

Remember in that same chapter you're quoting it ends with, "But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet?" Who is sitting on who's right hand?
Hebrews 1:4,6 says, "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs...And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.” These are the ones Jesus is name Lord over. There is no mention that Jesus became Lord over Jehovah.

If Jesus was God why would Jesus ever need to 'become better than the angels'? As God, wouldn't he already be better?

Jesus doesn't lord over the Father as they are equal.

This sentence makes no sense when compared to Hebrews 1:4, "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs."

He can't be greater, equal to and lower than an angel.

I believe JFB means Jesus in human nature is lower than the angel.Heb 2:9.
To the Father they are equal. Word "Lord" in Heb 1:10.
Lexicon definition of Lord below;

Heb 1:10 - NT:2962 Kurios (a title for God and for Christ) one who exercises supernatural authority over mankind.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.(NIV)

So God can die and Jesus before his death wasn't even equal to an angel? There was a time when he wasn't lord? How can that be possible and still jive with a doctrine that claims that Jesus is equal to his father?

[Capbook]

That doesn't make Jesus lord over Jehovah.

Remember in that same chapter you're quoting it ends with, "But about which of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet?" Who is sitting on who's right hand?
Hebrews 1:4,6 says, "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs...And let all of God’s angels do obeisance to him.” These are the ones Jesus is name Lord over. There is no mention that Jesus became Lord over Jehovah.

If Jesus was God why would Jesus ever need to 'become better than the angels'? As God, wouldn't he already be better?

Jesus doesn't lord over the Father as they are equal.

This sentence makes no sense when compared to Hebrews 1:4, "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs."

He can't be greater, equal to and lower than an angel.

I believe JFB means Jesus in human nature is lower than the angel.Heb 2:9.
To the Father they are equal. Word "Lord" in Heb 1:10.
Lexicon definition of Lord below;

Heb 1:10 - NT:2962 Kurios (a title for God and for Christ) one who exercises supernatural authority over mankind.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.(NIV)

So God can die and Jesus before his death wasn't even equal to an angel? There was a time when he wasn't lord? How can that be possible and still jive with a doctrine that claims that Jesus is equal to his father?

We believe in the dual nature of Jesus. What died was His human nature (flesh). 1 Peter 3:18
Jesus take back His life (resurrected) His divine nature, equal with the Father. John 10:17-18.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,(NKJV)
John 10:17-18
"Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."(NKJV)

[MissKate13]

You can't just look ONE scripture and look yourself to try and figure out what it means. You have to read ALL of the scriptures around it as well to figure out what is the message. One must use exegesis and not eisegesis when reading the Bible.

I completely agree.

You don't want to comment on Hebrews 1:4 because it undoes your eisegesis of Hebrews 1:10. I'll go as far as to say you do not want to address the whole 1st chapter of Hebrews as when it is read in its entirety doesn't fit your dogma.

The thread is about Hebrews 1:10. You did not address it. Instead you attempted to disprove what it says by using verse 4.

Imho, the best way to read Hebrews 1 is to ask who the speaker is in each verse. Obviously, it is the author of Hebrews who speaks in the first four verses.

In verse 4, the author is talking about Jesus, who became so much better than the angels. The Son has superior status. He inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

The author uses quotations in verses 5-13 to show the various ways the name has superiority. For example in verse 5 the author quotes from Psalm 2 and asks if God ever said those words to angels.

The context of 5-13 is the Son is superior to angels. Ask yourself who the speaker is in each of the quotes.

Verse 5 - “You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.” “I will be to Him a Father,
And He shall be to Me a Son.” God the Father is the speaker.

Verse 6 - “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”. God the Father is the speaker.

Verse 7 - “Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.” God the Father is the speaker.

Verse 8 - “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” God the Father is the speaker.

Verse 9 - You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” God the Father is the speaker.

Verse 10- “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.” God the Father is the speaker.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. They are one in essence and nature.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. (1 John 5:7).

I pray your day is blessed.
Kate

[2timothy316]

You can't just look ONE scripture and look yourself to try and figure out what it means. You have to read ALL of the scriptures around it as well to figure out what is the message. One must use exegesis and not eisegesis when reading the Bible.

I completely agree.

You don't want to comment on Hebrews 1:4 because it undoes your eisegesis of Hebrews 1:10. I'll go as far as to say you do not want to address the whole 1st chapter of Hebrews as when it is read in its entirety doesn't fit your dogma.

The thread is about Hebrews 1:10. You did not address it. Instead you attempted to disprove what it says by using verse 4.

That is correct because you can't just look at a single scripture and talk about that one scripture and make a dogma out of it as you have. One must use scripture to explain scripture not what they have been taught or based on their opinion.

I see no reason to discuss anything with your further if you refuse to trust the rest of the Bible. I am placing you on my blocked list. Do not worry about replying as I will no longer see your posts from this day forward. Bye.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to Capbook in post #13]
I believe JFB means Jesus in human nature is lower than the angel.Heb 2:9.
To the Father they are equal. Word "Lord" in Heb 1:10.
Lexicon definition of Lord below;

Heb 1:10 - NT:2962 Kurios (a title for God and for Christ) one who exercises supernatural authority over mankind.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.(NIV)

Thank you for your post!

One must ask why the author of Hebrews feels the need to address the Son’s superiority over angels. Imho, it may be because the Jews of that day may have thought of Jesus as an angel like Michael or Gabriel. I believe the author dispels any and all false notions that Jesus is an angel. He goes to great lengths to show the superiority of the Son far above angels.

There are many passages we can use to show the Deity of Christ, but Hebrews 1 demonstrates that Jesus Christ is God.

“through whom also He made the world” (Hebrews 1:2). Yet we know that the creator is God (Gen. 1:1, John 1:3)

“The exact representation of His nature” (Hebrews 1:3) – In Jesus, we see the Father (John 1:18). Jesus said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).

“You are My Son, today I have begotten you” (Hebrews 1:5). The Jews understood that Jesus being God’s Son meant He was equal to God (John 5:18).

“Let all the angels of God worship Him” (Hebrews 1:6). The only one who serves worship is God (Rev. 22:8-9

“But of the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever’” (Hebrews 1:8). Hod calls Jesus God.

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands” (Hebrews 1:10). God calls Jesus Lord and credits Him with creation.

“You are the same, and Your years will not come to an end” (Hebrews 1:12). Jesus is the same today, yesterday and forever (Hebrews 13:8). He is eternal and unchanging.

Blessings,
Kate

[MissKate13]

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #18]

I did comment on Hebrews 1:4 and more in my post #17. I am happy to discuss it and all of Hebrews 1. I believe we must look at the entire context. Wouldn’t you agree?

Have a blessed night. I’ll be heading out to Bible study soon. So I won’t be back until morning.

Blessings,

Kate