Forgiveness, a Christian calling card?

[achilles12604]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061008/ap_ ... l_shooting

In years past, forgiveness was central to Christian lives. Lately, I am sensing much less forgiveness from the majority of Christains I know personally. They are becoming less forgiving in my opinion. However, as noted in this article and in other reports and interviews I have seen, the Amish are extreamly forgiving of a man that everyone else condemns, even after his actions hurt the Amish directly.

My questions are

1) Are Christian's becoming less forgiving as a group? Is there a trend happening here?

2) If yes, why? Why are some Christains becoming less forgiving while others are still amazing? What is the difference and what causes this?

[methylatedghosts]

This issue with Tina bugs me. What kind of friend tells you to put God first when you're struggling with everything else at the same time. What happened to just being supportive?

And just because she stopped going to church, doesn't mean she stopped having a relationship with God. Since when did a relationship with God equate with having to go to church. Who says she didn't pray and worship at home.

Perhaps she did, but that would be being disobedient to God. The God of the New Testament wants his faithful to gather together for support, teaching, edification, worship and discipleship. Now, if we are talking about a different god then anything goes.

Oh, ok. I don't recall anything in the bible that say that the faithful are supposed to gather. Or does it say that it can be adviseable...? I'm not sure. I just didn't think it was one of the "rules"

[topaz]

Save your prayers. Tina's son died 2 months later from complication of that car accident. She learned how he cared for her.

What ? This is shocking ! I am sorry to hear about Tina’s boy.

1-Does Tina attend a tongue-speaking church ?
2-Is she a tongue-speaker ?

I am sorry, what kind of God puts a parent in a position that they much choose between Him and their child? The fact that He didn't take the child doesn't negate the challenge.

The test of abraham was a test on his love for son or God, which is higher. God must be #1. We know this, right ? But God know our limits and He would not test us this same way. Each person is tested differently.

Todays society sees that as barbaric, but then again, burning sheep in sacrifice for God would be barbaric too.

Society is judging God’s act of sacrificing isaac as barbaric ? Excuse me, w/o God in one’s life, the mind is in complete darkness. It goes down, not up, it is reduced to the mind of an animal. Is animal sacrifice barbaric ? It is a MUST to make atonement for our sins. Jesus Christ became the animal sacrifice and that is why we don’t need to make sacrifice of animals for our sins today. God is infinite wisdom. We learn from Him. How dare we judge His acts as ‘barbaric’.

God made this world. He made man, animals and plant life. He is the owner of your soul and everything your eye can see. If He commands, we obey period. Unlike you, abraham had great u/standing. Didn’t God give him a son when he had none ? So he figured that if God could give him a son then ask for him to be sacrificed, surely, God could also bring his son back to life. Faith is not blind. It is belief based on understanding logic, sometimes, even the illogical. God can do ANYTHING. This is called … faith.

… then take my word for this: I have put my entire heart and soul into seeking Christ for help. What I found after several years was a feeling of rejection, like I was not good enough, because never once did I feel his presence. I tried. I sought.

Hmm … I believe you. I know God can turn His face away and we feel it. I have been there. Instead of losing faith, u/stand that if we persist, He will relent, He will COOL DOWN and then you will feel it. Then the RELATIONSHIP gets mended. In my life, I would ask God what I have done wrong, to reveal it to me. Then I can repent of it.

I haven't given up hope yet, but let me say that it gets less and less every day. But thank you for your blessings nonetheless.

I can help you along. I will put you on my prayer list [if you don’t mind] together with Tina. Please tell me if Tina is a tongue-speaker. I had wanted to ask you this after that post.

[Confused]

Save your prayers. Tina's son died 2 months later from complication of that car accident. She learned how he cared for her.

What ? This is shocking ! I am sorry to hear about Tina’s boy.

1-Does Tina attend a tongue-speaking church ?
2-Is she a tongue-speaker ?

I am sorry, what kind of God puts a parent in a position that they much choose between Him and their child? The fact that He didn't take the child doesn't negate the challenge.

The test of abraham was a test on his love for son or God, which is higher. God must be #1. We know this, right ? But God know our limits and He would not test us this same way. Each person is tested differently.

Todays society sees that as barbaric, but then again, burning sheep in sacrifice for God would be barbaric too.

Society is judging God’s act of sacrificing isaac as barbaric ? Excuse me, w/o God in one’s life, the mind is in complete darkness. It goes down, not up, it is reduced to the mind of an animal. Is animal sacrifice barbaric ? It is a MUST to make atonement for our sins. Jesus Christ became the animal sacrifice and that is why we don’t need to make sacrifice of animals for our sins today. God is infinite wisdom. We learn from Him. How dare we judge His acts as ‘barbaric’.

God made this world. He made man, animals and plant life. He is the owner of your soul and everything your eye can see. If He commands, we obey period. Unlike you, abraham had great u/standing. Didn’t God give him a son when he had none ? So he figured that if God could give him a son then ask for him to be sacrificed, surely, God could also bring his son back to life. Faith is not blind. It is belief based on understanding logic, sometimes, even the illogical. God can do ANYTHING. This is called … faith.

… then take my word for this: I have put my entire heart and soul into seeking Christ for help. What I found after several years was a feeling of rejection, like I was not good enough, because never once did I feel his presence. I tried. I sought.

Hmm … I believe you. I know God can turn His face away and we feel it. I have been there. Instead of losing faith, u/stand that if we persist, He will relent, He will COOL DOWN and then you will feel it. Then the RELATIONSHIP gets mended. In my life, I would ask God what I have done wrong, to reveal it to me. Then I can repent of it.

I haven't given up hope yet, but let me say that it gets less and less every day. But thank you for your blessings nonetheless.

I can help you along. I will put you on my prayer list [if you don’t mind] together with Tina. Please tell me if Tina is a tongue-speaker. I had wanted to ask you this after that post.

a tongue speaker?

If I have offended God in some way, then I would expect him to tell me how. Not turning his back on me until I had sufficiently begged for forgiveness. You forget, I have never felt his presence. I raised myself, I never had anything given to me, I worked my ass off for my education and stuggle everday to survive yet another tragedy with my son. I haven't ever known your God. Is it asking to much for him to show me some sign he is hear. Please don't tell me too go outside and look around. I look outside and see pollution, families on the streets, diseases that we can no longer treat, new cancers we can't even name yet, old cancers resistant to previously successful treatments, viruses that can pass from species to species, bacteria that we can no longer treat. I see suffering in the intensive care every night I am at work. No matter what I do, I can't help them. Famine is rampant. Wars are becoming less rational. I see children no longer having a sense of self, crime may be decreasing in some cities but the intensity of the crimes committed are more heinous than ever. So don't tell me to look a this beautiful creation as proof of his existence. Just tell me, why does God not find me worthy enough to show me a sign he exists. Not one that can be explained. Is my soul not worthy enough for him. Is the whole greater than the sum of it's parts meaning that if 80% believe in him, than the hell with the other 20%. This is your loving God and what he preaches? Tell me, what is unreasonable about what I have written?

[methylatedghosts]

Save your prayers. Tina's son died 2 months later from complication of that car accident. She learned how he cared for her.

What ? This is shocking ! I am sorry to hear about Tina’s boy.

1-Does Tina attend a tongue-speaking church ?
2-Is she a tongue-speaker ?

Huh? What is a tongue-speaker/church? Isn't speaking in a different tongue just speaking in a different language? i.e. English vs. Spanish, Dutch, Mandarin?

Society is judging God’s act of sacrificing isaac as barbaric ? Excuse me, w/o God in one’s life, the mind is in complete darkness. It goes down, not up, it is reduced to the mind of an animal. Is animal sacrifice barbaric ? It is a MUST to make atonement for our sins. Jesus Christ became the animal sacrifice and that is why we don’t need to make sacrifice of animals for our sins today. God is infinite wisdom. We learn from Him. How dare we judge His acts as ‘barbaric’.

God made this world. He made man, animals and plant life. He is the owner of your soul and everything your eye can see. If He commands, we obey period. Unlike you, abraham had great u/standing. Didn’t God give him a son when he had none ? So he figured that if God could give him a son then ask for him to be sacrificed, surely, God could also bring his son back to life. Faith is not blind. It is belief based on understanding logic, sometimes, even the illogical. God can do ANYTHING. This is called … faith.

Just wow........ I am amazed at your conviction of these statements.

… then take my word for this: I have put my entire heart and soul into seeking Christ for help. What I found after several years was a feeling of rejection, like I was not good enough, because never once did I feel his presence. I tried. I sought.

Hmm … I believe you. I know God can turn His face away and we feel it. I have been there. Instead of losing faith, u/stand that if we persist, He will relent, He will COOL DOWN and then you will feel it. Then the RELATIONSHIP gets mended. In my life, I would ask God what I have done wrong, to reveal it to me. Then I can repent of it.

So God, the all-loving being, sometimes "turns away"? What for?

[topaz]

a tongue speaker?

Does Tina speak in tongues ? You know, the gift of the Holy Spirit … speaking in tongues at Pentecost.

If I have offended God in some way, then I would expect him to tell me how.

Indeed, WE are all sinners. No one can claim never to have offended God. God speaks to us through scripture … the Commandments, His teachings, etc.

Not turning his back on me until I had sufficiently begged for forgiveness. You forget, I have never felt his presence.

You’re on my prayer list. Imagine God behind a large table with IN / OUT/ KIV/ CHILDREN’S prayer requests … trays. God will attend to the requests from His children. They don’t need to queue. Other requests in the IN tray … well, they’ll just have to wait till their queue number is up. I hope you get the picture. Having said this, God will connect to you in His time. Perhaps in the past, no one has ever prayed for you. Consider this a blessing. You don’t want the followers of a false christ praying for you, believe me. You won’t believe what harm they can do.

I raised myself, I never had anything given to me, I worked my ass off for my education and stuggle everday to survive yet another tragedy with my son.

You’re sharing with us. I appreciate this.

I haven't ever known your God. Is it asking to much for him to show me some sign he is hear.

Father in heaven, I bring this soul before You right now. I feel her struggle in life. Confuse is here b/c she seeks You and really wants to get to know You. Father, please forgive her. Please be an oasis to her and Tina in this hell that is earth. Let her know w/o a doubt that You are in her life, taking charge. For the sake of Your great Name, answer O God. Have mercy, O God and forgive. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, Amen.

Please don't tell me too go outside and look around. I look outside and see pollution, families on the streets, diseases that we can no longer treat, new cancers we can't even name yet, old cancers resistant to previously successful treatments, viruses that can pass from species to species, bacteria that we can no longer treat. I see suffering in the intensive care every night I am at work. No matter what I do, I can't help them. Famine is rampant. Wars are becoming less rational. I see children no longer having a sense of self, crime may be decreasing in some cities but the intensity of the crimes committed are more heinous than ever. So don't tell me to look a this beautiful creation as proof of his existence.

And Methy said this is a ‘safe environment’ … yeah right.

Just tell me, why does God not find me worthy enough to show me a sign he exists. Not one that can be explained. Is my soul not worthy enough for him. Is the whole greater than the sum of it's parts meaning that if 80% believe in him, than the hell with the other 20%. This is your loving God and what he preaches? Tell me, what is unreasonable about what I have written?

None of us is worthy … Ro 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

You have written nothing that is unreasonable. God knows our hearts. You have bared your heart and your thoughts. God does not forsake anyone who seeks Him. Truth.

God bless and keep you and yours.

[methylatedghosts]

Please don't tell me too go outside and look around. I look outside and see pollution, families on the streets, diseases that we can no longer treat, new cancers we can't even name yet, old cancers resistant to previously successful treatments, viruses that can pass from species to species, bacteria that we can no longer treat. I see suffering in the intensive care every night I am at work. No matter what I do, I can't help them. Famine is rampant. Wars are becoming less rational. I see children no longer having a sense of self, crime may be decreasing in some cities but the intensity of the crimes committed are more heinous than ever. So don't tell me to look a this beautiful creation as proof of his existence.

And Methy said this is a ‘safe environment’ … yeah right.

I said "a safe environment (spiritually)" - not physically.

Confused,
Not all of the illnesses and sicknesses may ever be helped. Realise, however, that suffering is your reaction to a situation. You suffer, because you can't not. I think the problem is, that you want it to stop. You expect to find a way that will stop you from suffering. If you realise that you suffer, and you see the situation that is the cause of your suffering, then you embrace it. See what it tells you about Who You Are, in relation to that. Suffering is all part of why we're here. Instead of trying to save people, you know you cannot, why not make their death as comfortable as possible. I don't mean euthanasia, but I mean to make them comfortable with death. Let them learn to accept it. Help them realise, and their families, that it is not a loss, but a release. Families will be against you, but the person that is dying will be grateful. The family will say you're not doing your job, that you're supposed to save everyone. And they may move on to another doctor, even though it may be of greatest inconvenience to that patient.

Notice, that most of the time a person waits for their family to leave before they die. They say "no, I'll be fine, I'll see you tomorrow". Then, once everyone has left, they can peacefully make their way on. You can imagine if they said "I think I'm going to die today" the reaction of the friends an family "no, don't leave us, we love you".

People do things to others, because they are reacting with the information they have. If you go out and rob a store, there is a reason behind it, and you don't do it, if you have no reason. Remember, cause and effect.

A war is started and continued, because the governments react on the information they have.

Children, I agree, are losing their sense of self. Everyone is wearing the same things, doing the same things, and "needing" the same things. You look out on the street, and it's almost as though these kids are wearing uniforms. But why? I believe it is the parents. I believe children need to be brought up by the parents 100% of the time, at least up until they go to school. I believe the mum or dad should be at home until all of the kids are at school, and then only get a job that allows them to get home the same time the kids do. This is so these children may have someone to talk to, and appreciate them, and love them for who they are. Realise, that the soul has only just entered the enclosure of the human body, and it doesn't like it. It wants to be free. So let the children be as free as they can. Let their imaginations run wild. If all parents were to do this, then we may see a change in the children we have, even today.

[Confused]

Please don't tell me too go outside and look around. I look outside and see pollution, families on the streets, diseases that we can no longer treat, new cancers we can't even name yet, old cancers resistant to previously successful treatments, viruses that can pass from species to species, bacteria that we can no longer treat. I see suffering in the intensive care every night I am at work. No matter what I do, I can't help them. Famine is rampant. Wars are becoming less rational. I see children no longer having a sense of self, crime may be decreasing in some cities but the intensity of the crimes committed are more heinous than ever. So don't tell me to look a this beautiful creation as proof of his existence.

And Methy said this is a ‘safe environment’ … yeah right.

I said "a safe environment (spiritually)" - not physically.

Confused,
Not all of the illnesses and sicknesses may ever be helped. Realise, however, that suffering is your reaction to a situation. You suffer, because you can't not. I think the problem is, that you want it to stop. You expect to find a way that will stop you from suffering. If you realise that you suffer, and you see the situation that is the cause of your suffering, then you embrace it. See what it tells you about Who You Are, in relation to that. Suffering is all part of why we're here. Instead of trying to save people, you know you cannot, why not make their death as comfortable as possible. I don't mean euthanasia, but I mean to make them comfortable with death. Let them learn to accept it. Help them realise, and their families, that it is not a loss, but a release. Families will be against you, but the person that is dying will be grateful. The family will say you're not doing your job, that you're supposed to save everyone. And they may move on to another doctor, even though it may be of greatest inconvenience to that patient.

Notice, that most of the time a person waits for their family to leave before they die. They say "no, I'll be fine, I'll see you tomorrow". Then, once everyone has left, they can peacefully make their way on. You can imagine if they said "I think I'm going to die today" the reaction of the friends an family "no, don't leave us, we love you".

People do things to others, because they are reacting with the information they have. If you go out and rob a store, there is a reason behind it, and you don't do it, if you have no reason. Remember, cause and effect.

A war is started and continued, because the governments react on the information they have.

Children, I agree, are losing their sense of self. Everyone is wearing the same things, doing the same things, and "needing" the same things. You look out on the street, and it's almost as though these kids are wearing uniforms. But why? I believe it is the parents. I believe children need to be brought up by the parents 100% of the time, at least up until they go to school. I believe the mum or dad should be at home until all of the kids are at school, and then only get a job that allows them to get home the same time the kids do. This is so these children may have someone to talk to, and appreciate them, and love them for who they are. Realise, that the soul has only just entered the enclosure of the human body, and it doesn't like it. It wants to be free. So let the children be as free as they can. Let their imaginations run wild. If all parents were to do this, then we may see a change in the children we have, even today.

If I let my so do what his imagination dictated, He will become the next Ted Bundy. I agree with not limiting childrens exposure. But in todays society, one can't survive on one income alone, esp if there are health issues involved. So it is a great theory, but not realistic.

[methylatedghosts]

If I let my so do what his imagination dictated, He will become the next Ted Bundy. I agree with not limiting childrens exposure. But in todays society, one can't survive on one income alone, esp if there are health issues involved. So it is a great theory, but not realistic.

Really? Ok. I have no idea what the economy is like in America, but in NZ, we seem to do pretty good on a single income for a family. My mum didn't start working until my sister was 7 and I was 11. And even then, she got a job that was 9-2, meaning she was home before any of us were.

But no, I agree, sometimes health (or rather, lack of it) does put huge strain on the entire family and their pockets. Treatments, doctors visits, medications. I understand. I know a family with 2 children who are very..... mentally challenged...shall I say. the oldest, is now 22, and gets very very very excited about tractors. I think his parents said his mental age was about 5-6years.

What the government needs to provide is a free blanket health care. This would take enormous strain off some families whos lives are centered around hospital visits. This may also allow one parent o stay home and take care of the children and allowing them to grow. (talking spiritually here )

[Confused]

If I let my so do what his imagination dictated, He will become the next Ted Bundy. I agree with not limiting childrens exposure. But in todays society, one can't survive on one income alone, esp if there are health issues involved. So it is a great theory, but not realistic.

Really? Ok. I have no idea what the economy is like in America, but in NZ, we seem to do pretty good on a single income for a family. My mum didn't start working until my sister was 7 and I was 11. And even then, she got a job that was 9-2, meaning she was home before any of us were.

But no, I agree, sometimes health (or rather, lack of it) does put huge strain on the entire family and their pockets. Treatments, doctors visits, medications. I understand. I know a family with 2 children who are very..... mentally challenged...shall I say. the oldest, is now 22, and gets very very very excited about tractors. I think his parents said his mental age was about 5-6years.

What the government needs to provide is a free blanket health care. This would take enormous strain off some families whos lives are centered around hospital visits. This may also allow one parent o stay home and take care of the children and allowing them to grow. (talking spiritually here )

Here, my son has medical probems that are weekly costs, my daughter and I both have CML which is treated with Gleevac which with two insurance coverage (mine and her dads) we still pay out of pocket 1700 dollars a month for. It isn't possible for a single working family without extreme hardship. My mom raised all us (9 kids) solo in Alaska, many nights we had no dinner, many nights we huddled to keep warm. A one parent working family in the US is the exception rather than the rule.

But even so, if I stayed at home and did nothing by concentrate on my son, it still wouldn't be enough. It would likely be hazardous to both our health. But I can honestly say, I have never had any Chrisitian step up to offer assistance, only condemnation. (not saying all Christians are like this, biker is even an exception at this moment).

[methylatedghosts]

Here, my son has medical probems that are weekly costs, my daughter and I both have CML which is treated with Gleevac which with two insurance coverage (mine and her dads) we still pay out of pocket 1700 dollars a month for. It isn't possible for a single working family without extreme hardship. My mom raised all us (9 kids) solo in Alaska, many nights we had no dinner, many nights we huddled to keep warm. A one parent working family in the US is the exception rather than the rule.

But even so, if I stayed at home and did nothing by concentrate on my son, it still wouldn't be enough. It would likely be hazardous to both our health. But I can honestly say, I have never had any Chrisitian step up to offer assistance, only condemnation. (not saying all Christians are like this, biker is even an exception at this moment).

Wow, that is intense. $1700 p mth? Thats insane. I understand the obvious need to work then. It sounds like you might need financial assitance in the least