But only two persons in God?
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But only two persons in God?
Post #1"Binitarianism teaches that the Holy Spirit is actually just another name for Jesus—more to the point, that Jesus is simply the Spirit incarnate. The claim is based on the misreading of a passage in the non-canonical “The Shepherd of Hermas� and on Romans 8:9, which says, “You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.� (cf. 1 Peter 1:10–11). Here, the “Spirit of God� seems to be equated with the “Spirit of Christ�; if the “Spirit of Christ� is simply another name for Jesus, as Binitarianism contends, then there is no third Person of the Godhead."
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Re: But only two persons in God?
Post #11There are three person one in the state of being God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:00 amMy son and I are "in the same state" of being in the flesh, just as God and Jesus are "in the same state" of being spirit. That is the only way they are the same. My son will never be me, nor will I ever be my son. He will never have my place in the order of things. I will always be his mother, with the last word on things pertaining to my life.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:14 pmMay I ask, are you more human than your son? Of course not. But you are in higher position, role, rank in the family than your son and you both are equal in the state of humanity. Why can't we apply this logic with Jesus?onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:08 pmIf someone is "higher in rank" that means he is superior to the person he's higher than. For Jesus to be God he would have to be identical to the Father. He is not identical, he is just a reflection of the Father. A reflection is not the same as what it reflects. The Father and Son are the same in essence or nature because they are both Spirit Persons, and not because they are both God. "Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily," or "the fullness of the Deity." (Colossians 2:9; see the NIV, the New American Standard Bible, the New American Bible, Moffatt's Translation) There is no such word as "Godhead" except in those versions aligned with the KJV. Its translators already believed that Jesus was God, so their bias shows in their translating. The word "theotes" is actually, in English, "divine quality" or "godship" or "Deity." That gives the verse an entirely different meaning. There is no "Godhead" with three Persons, but one Father and a Son that reflects the deity of the Father, the Father being God (and only the Father).Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:15 pmYes, the Father is superior to Jesus in position, rank, role and etc.onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 2:38 pmJohn 14 does not picture a trinity. It mentions God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that they are all "God." In fact God and Jesus are distinctly separate, with the Father, God, being the Most High over even Jesus. Jesus even says that "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) So Jesus does NOT "clearly present the triune personhood of God." Quite the opposite. Read over John 14 and you can see that Jesus always defers to the Father, even saying that his words are what the Father gave him to speak (verse 24).PinSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:07 pmRight, and in John 14, He clearly presents the triune personhood of the Godhead, the Son proceeding from the Father, and the Holy Spirit as our Helper proceeding from the Father and the Son.Mattathias wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:38 pm I remember someone telling me when I was a child that Jesus is a Jew and he has the answers to our questions. I don’t know what you think about that but I’ve never forgotten it and I’d like to take that approach in thinking about your question.
What would Jesus say if someone were to ask him if he himself is God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him if he himself has a God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him if there is any God besides his God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him how many persons there are in his God?
Who would he say his God is?
I don’t see a good case presented in scripture for he himself being binitarian in thought, faith and practice.
Grace and peace to you, Mattathias.
What would Jesus say if asked if he were God? He would say NO. "I am God's Son!" (John 10:36)
What would he say if asked "do you have a God?" He would say yes. See his words at John 20:17 and Revelation 3:12.
What would he say if asked "is there any God besides your God?" He would say NO. There is just one Most High, as seen at Psalm 83:18, KJV.
How many persons are in his God? He would say ONE. In speaking to his Father, he said: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3)
He would say that his God is the Father, Jehovah. His Father is written about throughout the Old Testament, and in relation to the Messiah that was coming. Jesus is the Messiah, so all of the references to Jehovah and the Messiah in the OT are revealing as to what their relationship is. Jehovah anointed Jesus, and Jehovah SENT him. (Isaiah 61:1,2) Jesus took all his orders from God, the Father (John 5:19; John 12:49,50).
Being superior or higher in rank than Jesus does not mean that Jesus is not God.
An employer is higher in position than the employee, but that does not mean that one is more human in nature than the other.
Just like the Father higher in rank, position or role but they are the same in the state/essence/nature as God.(Col 2:9)
Godhead Greek word "theotes" defined by lexicon as the state of being God. (Col 2:9)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
Jesus said to the Father: "YOU [are] the only true God." (John 17:3)
John 1:1 "And God was the word" Jesus and the Father just like you and your son differ in position, rank, and role but they are of the same state of being God.
Lexicon Thayer and Mounce define Greek "theotes" as Godhead, deity, divinity and state of being God.
See original Greek of Col 2:9, where Godhead or Deity I colored red.
In John 17:3, May I ask, how would a Christian experience eternal life?
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G846 dwelleth G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fulness G4138 of the G3588 Godhead G2320 bodily. G4985
Col 2:9 οτι G3754 CONJ εν G1722 PREP αυτω G846 P-DSM κατοικει G2730 V-PAI-3S παν G3956 A-NSN το G3588 T-NSN πληρωμα G4138 N-NSN της G3588 T-GSF θεοτητος G2320 N-GSF σωματικως G4985 ADV
Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς,
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
θεότης theotēs
Mounce Definition:
1x: divinity, deity, godhead, Col 2:9.
BTW, the word divine does not mean God. It means, according to an English dictionary, "Of, from, or like God or a god," not God. Moffatt's translation says this: "and the Word was divine." That translator has the meaning of "a god" correctly translated to "divine"....from God or like God.
Lexicon defined Godhead in Acts 17:29, Greek word “theios” as Trinity at the time of its usage.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
θεῖος theios
Thayer Definition:
1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks
2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity
2a) of Christ
2b) Holy Spirit
2c) the Father
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Re: But only two persons in God?
Post #12What is Jesus' definition of God? Did he say God was a triune God? Actually he said clearly that the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Many other passages show that Jehovah (the Father) is the Most High, one of which is Psalm 83:18, KJV.Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:12 pmThere are three person one in the state of being God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:00 amMy son and I are "in the same state" of being in the flesh, just as God and Jesus are "in the same state" of being spirit. That is the only way they are the same. My son will never be me, nor will I ever be my son. He will never have my place in the order of things. I will always be his mother, with the last word on things pertaining to my life.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:14 pmMay I ask, are you more human than your son? Of course not. But you are in higher position, role, rank in the family than your son and you both are equal in the state of humanity. Why can't we apply this logic with Jesus?onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:08 pmIf someone is "higher in rank" that means he is superior to the person he's higher than. For Jesus to be God he would have to be identical to the Father. He is not identical, he is just a reflection of the Father. A reflection is not the same as what it reflects. The Father and Son are the same in essence or nature because they are both Spirit Persons, and not because they are both God. "Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily," or "the fullness of the Deity." (Colossians 2:9; see the NIV, the New American Standard Bible, the New American Bible, Moffatt's Translation) There is no such word as "Godhead" except in those versions aligned with the KJV. Its translators already believed that Jesus was God, so their bias shows in their translating. The word "theotes" is actually, in English, "divine quality" or "godship" or "Deity." That gives the verse an entirely different meaning. There is no "Godhead" with three Persons, but one Father and a Son that reflects the deity of the Father, the Father being God (and only the Father).Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:15 pmYes, the Father is superior to Jesus in position, rank, role and etc.onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 2:38 pmJohn 14 does not picture a trinity. It mentions God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that they are all "God." In fact God and Jesus are distinctly separate, with the Father, God, being the Most High over even Jesus. Jesus even says that "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) So Jesus does NOT "clearly present the triune personhood of God." Quite the opposite. Read over John 14 and you can see that Jesus always defers to the Father, even saying that his words are what the Father gave him to speak (verse 24).PinSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:07 pmRight, and in John 14, He clearly presents the triune personhood of the Godhead, the Son proceeding from the Father, and the Holy Spirit as our Helper proceeding from the Father and the Son.Mattathias wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:38 pm I remember someone telling me when I was a child that Jesus is a Jew and he has the answers to our questions. I don’t know what you think about that but I’ve never forgotten it and I’d like to take that approach in thinking about your question.
What would Jesus say if someone were to ask him if he himself is God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him if he himself has a God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him if there is any God besides his God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him how many persons there are in his God?
Who would he say his God is?
I don’t see a good case presented in scripture for he himself being binitarian in thought, faith and practice.
Grace and peace to you, Mattathias.
What would Jesus say if asked if he were God? He would say NO. "I am God's Son!" (John 10:36)
What would he say if asked "do you have a God?" He would say yes. See his words at John 20:17 and Revelation 3:12.
What would he say if asked "is there any God besides your God?" He would say NO. There is just one Most High, as seen at Psalm 83:18, KJV.
How many persons are in his God? He would say ONE. In speaking to his Father, he said: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3)
He would say that his God is the Father, Jehovah. His Father is written about throughout the Old Testament, and in relation to the Messiah that was coming. Jesus is the Messiah, so all of the references to Jehovah and the Messiah in the OT are revealing as to what their relationship is. Jehovah anointed Jesus, and Jehovah SENT him. (Isaiah 61:1,2) Jesus took all his orders from God, the Father (John 5:19; John 12:49,50).
Being superior or higher in rank than Jesus does not mean that Jesus is not God.
An employer is higher in position than the employee, but that does not mean that one is more human in nature than the other.
Just like the Father higher in rank, position or role but they are the same in the state/essence/nature as God.(Col 2:9)
Godhead Greek word "theotes" defined by lexicon as the state of being God. (Col 2:9)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
Jesus said to the Father: "YOU [are] the only true God." (John 17:3)
John 1:1 "And God was the word" Jesus and the Father just like you and your son differ in position, rank, and role but they are of the same state of being God.
Lexicon Thayer and Mounce define Greek "theotes" as Godhead, deity, divinity and state of being God.
See original Greek of Col 2:9, where Godhead or Deity I colored red.
In John 17:3, May I ask, how would a Christian experience eternal life?
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G846 dwelleth G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fulness G4138 of the G3588 Godhead G2320 bodily. G4985
Col 2:9 οτι G3754 CONJ εν G1722 PREP αυτω G846 P-DSM κατοικει G2730 V-PAI-3S παν G3956 A-NSN το G3588 T-NSN πληρωμα G4138 N-NSN της G3588 T-GSF θεοτητος G2320 N-GSF σωματικως G4985 ADV
Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς,
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
θεότης theotēs
Mounce Definition:
1x: divinity, deity, godhead, Col 2:9.
BTW, the word divine does not mean God. It means, according to an English dictionary, "Of, from, or like God or a god," not God. Moffatt's translation says this: "and the Word was divine." That translator has the meaning of "a god" correctly translated to "divine"....from God or like God.
Lexicon defined Godhead in Acts 17:29, Greek word “theios” as Trinity at the time of its usage.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
θεῖος theios
Thayer Definition:
1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks
2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity
2a) of Christ
2b) Holy Spirit
2c) the Father
Jesus' hand-picked apostle, Paul, wrote that "for us there is but one God, the Father." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)
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Re: But only two persons in God?
Post #13I noticed that you don't use lexicons to know the meaning of Bible words.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 11:55 amWhat is Jesus' definition of God? Did he say God was a triune God? Actually he said clearly that the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Many other passages show that Jehovah (the Father) is the Most High, one of which is Psalm 83:18, KJV.Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:12 pmThere are three person one in the state of being God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:00 amMy son and I are "in the same state" of being in the flesh, just as God and Jesus are "in the same state" of being spirit. That is the only way they are the same. My son will never be me, nor will I ever be my son. He will never have my place in the order of things. I will always be his mother, with the last word on things pertaining to my life.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:14 pmMay I ask, are you more human than your son? Of course not. But you are in higher position, role, rank in the family than your son and you both are equal in the state of humanity. Why can't we apply this logic with Jesus?onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:08 pmIf someone is "higher in rank" that means he is superior to the person he's higher than. For Jesus to be God he would have to be identical to the Father. He is not identical, he is just a reflection of the Father. A reflection is not the same as what it reflects. The Father and Son are the same in essence or nature because they are both Spirit Persons, and not because they are both God. "Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily," or "the fullness of the Deity." (Colossians 2:9; see the NIV, the New American Standard Bible, the New American Bible, Moffatt's Translation) There is no such word as "Godhead" except in those versions aligned with the KJV. Its translators already believed that Jesus was God, so their bias shows in their translating. The word "theotes" is actually, in English, "divine quality" or "godship" or "Deity." That gives the verse an entirely different meaning. There is no "Godhead" with three Persons, but one Father and a Son that reflects the deity of the Father, the Father being God (and only the Father).Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:15 pmYes, the Father is superior to Jesus in position, rank, role and etc.onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 2:38 pmJohn 14 does not picture a trinity. It mentions God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that they are all "God." In fact God and Jesus are distinctly separate, with the Father, God, being the Most High over even Jesus. Jesus even says that "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) So Jesus does NOT "clearly present the triune personhood of God." Quite the opposite. Read over John 14 and you can see that Jesus always defers to the Father, even saying that his words are what the Father gave him to speak (verse 24).PinSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:07 pmRight, and in John 14, He clearly presents the triune personhood of the Godhead, the Son proceeding from the Father, and the Holy Spirit as our Helper proceeding from the Father and the Son.Mattathias wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:38 pm I remember someone telling me when I was a child that Jesus is a Jew and he has the answers to our questions. I don’t know what you think about that but I’ve never forgotten it and I’d like to take that approach in thinking about your question.
What would Jesus say if someone were to ask him if he himself is God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him if he himself has a God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him if there is any God besides his God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him how many persons there are in his God?
Who would he say his God is?
I don’t see a good case presented in scripture for he himself being binitarian in thought, faith and practice.
Grace and peace to you, Mattathias.
What would Jesus say if asked if he were God? He would say NO. "I am God's Son!" (John 10:36)
What would he say if asked "do you have a God?" He would say yes. See his words at John 20:17 and Revelation 3:12.
What would he say if asked "is there any God besides your God?" He would say NO. There is just one Most High, as seen at Psalm 83:18, KJV.
How many persons are in his God? He would say ONE. In speaking to his Father, he said: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3)
He would say that his God is the Father, Jehovah. His Father is written about throughout the Old Testament, and in relation to the Messiah that was coming. Jesus is the Messiah, so all of the references to Jehovah and the Messiah in the OT are revealing as to what their relationship is. Jehovah anointed Jesus, and Jehovah SENT him. (Isaiah 61:1,2) Jesus took all his orders from God, the Father (John 5:19; John 12:49,50).
Being superior or higher in rank than Jesus does not mean that Jesus is not God.
An employer is higher in position than the employee, but that does not mean that one is more human in nature than the other.
Just like the Father higher in rank, position or role but they are the same in the state/essence/nature as God.(Col 2:9)
Godhead Greek word "theotes" defined by lexicon as the state of being God. (Col 2:9)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
Jesus said to the Father: "YOU [are] the only true God." (John 17:3)
John 1:1 "And God was the word" Jesus and the Father just like you and your son differ in position, rank, and role but they are of the same state of being God.
Lexicon Thayer and Mounce define Greek "theotes" as Godhead, deity, divinity and state of being God.
See original Greek of Col 2:9, where Godhead or Deity I colored red.
In John 17:3, May I ask, how would a Christian experience eternal life?
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G846 dwelleth G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fulness G4138 of the G3588 Godhead G2320 bodily. G4985
Col 2:9 οτι G3754 CONJ εν G1722 PREP αυτω G846 P-DSM κατοικει G2730 V-PAI-3S παν G3956 A-NSN το G3588 T-NSN πληρωμα G4138 N-NSN της G3588 T-GSF θεοτητος G2320 N-GSF σωματικως G4985 ADV
Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς,
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
θεότης theotēs
Mounce Definition:
1x: divinity, deity, godhead, Col 2:9.
BTW, the word divine does not mean God. It means, according to an English dictionary, "Of, from, or like God or a god," not God. Moffatt's translation says this: "and the Word was divine." That translator has the meaning of "a god" correctly translated to "divine"....from God or like God.
Lexicon defined Godhead in Acts 17:29, Greek word “theios” as Trinity at the time of its usage.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
θεῖος theios
Thayer Definition:
1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks
2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity
2a) of Christ
2b) Holy Spirit
2c) the Father
Jesus' hand-picked apostle, Paul, wrote that "for us there is but one God, the Father." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)
Can a man gives you eternal life? (John 17:3) Whom has the the glory with the Father before the world was?
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Re: But only two persons in God?
Post #14Why would I need a Lexicon to know the meaning of the words I wrote in my post above? Look at Psalm 83:18 in the King James Version, and also I Corinthians 8:6. How would I need a Lexicon to know the meaning of the words used therein?Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:37 pmI noticed that you don't use lexicons to know the meaning of Bible words.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 11:55 amWhat is Jesus' definition of God? Did he say God was a triune God? Actually he said clearly that the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Many other passages show that Jehovah (the Father) is the Most High, one of which is Psalm 83:18, KJV.Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:12 pmThere are three person one in the state of being God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:00 amMy son and I are "in the same state" of being in the flesh, just as God and Jesus are "in the same state" of being spirit. That is the only way they are the same. My son will never be me, nor will I ever be my son. He will never have my place in the order of things. I will always be his mother, with the last word on things pertaining to my life.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:14 pmMay I ask, are you more human than your son? Of course not. But you are in higher position, role, rank in the family than your son and you both are equal in the state of humanity. Why can't we apply this logic with Jesus?onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:08 pmIf someone is "higher in rank" that means he is superior to the person he's higher than. For Jesus to be God he would have to be identical to the Father. He is not identical, he is just a reflection of the Father. A reflection is not the same as what it reflects. The Father and Son are the same in essence or nature because they are both Spirit Persons, and not because they are both God. "Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily," or "the fullness of the Deity." (Colossians 2:9; see the NIV, the New American Standard Bible, the New American Bible, Moffatt's Translation) There is no such word as "Godhead" except in those versions aligned with the KJV. Its translators already believed that Jesus was God, so their bias shows in their translating. The word "theotes" is actually, in English, "divine quality" or "godship" or "Deity." That gives the verse an entirely different meaning. There is no "Godhead" with three Persons, but one Father and a Son that reflects the deity of the Father, the Father being God (and only the Father).Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:15 pmYes, the Father is superior to Jesus in position, rank, role and etc.onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 2:38 pmJohn 14 does not picture a trinity. It mentions God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that they are all "God." In fact God and Jesus are distinctly separate, with the Father, God, being the Most High over even Jesus. Jesus even says that "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) So Jesus does NOT "clearly present the triune personhood of God." Quite the opposite. Read over John 14 and you can see that Jesus always defers to the Father, even saying that his words are what the Father gave him to speak (verse 24).PinSeeker wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:07 pmRight, and in John 14, He clearly presents the triune personhood of the Godhead, the Son proceeding from the Father, and the Holy Spirit as our Helper proceeding from the Father and the Son.Mattathias wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:38 pm I remember someone telling me when I was a child that Jesus is a Jew and he has the answers to our questions. I don’t know what you think about that but I’ve never forgotten it and I’d like to take that approach in thinking about your question.
What would Jesus say if someone were to ask him if he himself is God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him if he himself has a God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him if there is any God besides his God?
What would he say if someone were to ask him how many persons there are in his God?
Who would he say his God is?
I don’t see a good case presented in scripture for he himself being binitarian in thought, faith and practice.
Grace and peace to you, Mattathias.
What would Jesus say if asked if he were God? He would say NO. "I am God's Son!" (John 10:36)
What would he say if asked "do you have a God?" He would say yes. See his words at John 20:17 and Revelation 3:12.
What would he say if asked "is there any God besides your God?" He would say NO. There is just one Most High, as seen at Psalm 83:18, KJV.
How many persons are in his God? He would say ONE. In speaking to his Father, he said: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3)
He would say that his God is the Father, Jehovah. His Father is written about throughout the Old Testament, and in relation to the Messiah that was coming. Jesus is the Messiah, so all of the references to Jehovah and the Messiah in the OT are revealing as to what their relationship is. Jehovah anointed Jesus, and Jehovah SENT him. (Isaiah 61:1,2) Jesus took all his orders from God, the Father (John 5:19; John 12:49,50).
Being superior or higher in rank than Jesus does not mean that Jesus is not God.
An employer is higher in position than the employee, but that does not mean that one is more human in nature than the other.
Just like the Father higher in rank, position or role but they are the same in the state/essence/nature as God.(Col 2:9)
Godhead Greek word "theotes" defined by lexicon as the state of being God. (Col 2:9)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
Jesus said to the Father: "YOU [are] the only true God." (John 17:3)
John 1:1 "And God was the word" Jesus and the Father just like you and your son differ in position, rank, and role but they are of the same state of being God.
Lexicon Thayer and Mounce define Greek "theotes" as Godhead, deity, divinity and state of being God.
See original Greek of Col 2:9, where Godhead or Deity I colored red.
In John 17:3, May I ask, how would a Christian experience eternal life?
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G846 dwelleth G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fulness G4138 of the G3588 Godhead G2320 bodily. G4985
Col 2:9 οτι G3754 CONJ εν G1722 PREP αυτω G846 P-DSM κατοικει G2730 V-PAI-3S παν G3956 A-NSN το G3588 T-NSN πληρωμα G4138 N-NSN της G3588 T-GSF θεοτητος G2320 N-GSF σωματικως G4985 ADV
Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς,
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
θεότης theotēs
Mounce Definition:
1x: divinity, deity, godhead, Col 2:9.
BTW, the word divine does not mean God. It means, according to an English dictionary, "Of, from, or like God or a god," not God. Moffatt's translation says this: "and the Word was divine." That translator has the meaning of "a god" correctly translated to "divine"....from God or like God.
Lexicon defined Godhead in Acts 17:29, Greek word “theios” as Trinity at the time of its usage.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
θεῖος theios
Thayer Definition:
1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks
2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity
2a) of Christ
2b) Holy Spirit
2c) the Father
Jesus' hand-picked apostle, Paul, wrote that "for us there is but one God, the Father." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)
Can a man gives you eternal life? (John 17:3) Whom has the the glory with the Father before the world was?
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Re: But only two persons in God?
Post #15True God in 1 John 5:20 is a support interpretation that did refer to Jesus, where Christians would experience eternal life knowing the Father and Jesus. (John 17:3)onewithhim wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 12:30 pmWhy would I need a Lexicon to know the meaning of the words I wrote in my post above? Look at Psalm 83:18 in the King James Version, and also I Corinthians 8:6. How would I need a Lexicon to know the meaning of the words used therein?Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:37 pmI noticed that you don't use lexicons to know the meaning of Bible words.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 11:55 amWhat is Jesus' definition of God? Did he say God was a triune God? Actually he said clearly that the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Many other passages show that Jehovah (the Father) is the Most High, one of which is Psalm 83:18, KJV.Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:12 pmThere are three person one in the state of being God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:00 amMy son and I are "in the same state" of being in the flesh, just as God and Jesus are "in the same state" of being spirit. That is the only way they are the same. My son will never be me, nor will I ever be my son. He will never have my place in the order of things. I will always be his mother, with the last word on things pertaining to my life.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:14 pmMay I ask, are you more human than your son? Of course not. But you are in higher position, role, rank in the family than your son and you both are equal in the state of humanity. Why can't we apply this logic with Jesus?onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:08 pmIf someone is "higher in rank" that means he is superior to the person he's higher than. For Jesus to be God he would have to be identical to the Father. He is not identical, he is just a reflection of the Father. A reflection is not the same as what it reflects. The Father and Son are the same in essence or nature because they are both Spirit Persons, and not because they are both God. "Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily," or "the fullness of the Deity." (Colossians 2:9; see the NIV, the New American Standard Bible, the New American Bible, Moffatt's Translation) There is no such word as "Godhead" except in those versions aligned with the KJV. Its translators already believed that Jesus was God, so their bias shows in their translating. The word "theotes" is actually, in English, "divine quality" or "godship" or "Deity." That gives the verse an entirely different meaning. There is no "Godhead" with three Persons, but one Father and a Son that reflects the deity of the Father, the Father being God (and only the Father).Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:15 pmYes, the Father is superior to Jesus in position, rank, role and etc.onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 2:38 pmJohn 14 does not picture a trinity. It mentions God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that they are all "God." In fact God and Jesus are distinctly separate, with the Father, God, being the Most High over even Jesus. Jesus even says that "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) So Jesus does NOT "clearly present the triune personhood of God." Quite the opposite. Read over John 14 and you can see that Jesus always defers to the Father, even saying that his words are what the Father gave him to speak (verse 24).
What would Jesus say if asked if he were God? He would say NO. "I am God's Son!" (John 10:36)
What would he say if asked "do you have a God?" He would say yes. See his words at John 20:17 and Revelation 3:12.
What would he say if asked "is there any God besides your God?" He would say NO. There is just one Most High, as seen at Psalm 83:18, KJV.
How many persons are in his God? He would say ONE. In speaking to his Father, he said: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3)
He would say that his God is the Father, Jehovah. His Father is written about throughout the Old Testament, and in relation to the Messiah that was coming. Jesus is the Messiah, so all of the references to Jehovah and the Messiah in the OT are revealing as to what their relationship is. Jehovah anointed Jesus, and Jehovah SENT him. (Isaiah 61:1,2) Jesus took all his orders from God, the Father (John 5:19; John 12:49,50).
Being superior or higher in rank than Jesus does not mean that Jesus is not God.
An employer is higher in position than the employee, but that does not mean that one is more human in nature than the other.
Just like the Father higher in rank, position or role but they are the same in the state/essence/nature as God.(Col 2:9)
Godhead Greek word "theotes" defined by lexicon as the state of being God. (Col 2:9)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
Jesus said to the Father: "YOU [are] the only true God." (John 17:3)
John 1:1 "And God was the word" Jesus and the Father just like you and your son differ in position, rank, and role but they are of the same state of being God.
Lexicon Thayer and Mounce define Greek "theotes" as Godhead, deity, divinity and state of being God.
See original Greek of Col 2:9, where Godhead or Deity I colored red.
In John 17:3, May I ask, how would a Christian experience eternal life?
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G846 dwelleth G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fulness G4138 of the G3588 Godhead G2320 bodily. G4985
Col 2:9 οτι G3754 CONJ εν G1722 PREP αυτω G846 P-DSM κατοικει G2730 V-PAI-3S παν G3956 A-NSN το G3588 T-NSN πληρωμα G4138 N-NSN της G3588 T-GSF θεοτητος G2320 N-GSF σωματικως G4985 ADV
Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς,
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
θεότης theotēs
Mounce Definition:
1x: divinity, deity, godhead, Col 2:9.
BTW, the word divine does not mean God. It means, according to an English dictionary, "Of, from, or like God or a god," not God. Moffatt's translation says this: "and the Word was divine." That translator has the meaning of "a god" correctly translated to "divine"....from God or like God.
Lexicon defined Godhead in Acts 17:29, Greek word “theios” as Trinity at the time of its usage.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
θεῖος theios
Thayer Definition:
1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks
2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity
2a) of Christ
2b) Holy Spirit
2c) the Father
Jesus' hand-picked apostle, Paul, wrote that "for us there is but one God, the Father." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)
Can a man gives you eternal life? (John 17:3) Whom has the the glory with the Father before the world was?
Yes, there are verses that refer LORD to Jesus, that His glory be revealed and all flesh shall see it together. (Isa 40:3-5)
The Father is the speaker of the whole Chapter of Zechariah 12, whom He referred Himself being pierced.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Isa 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn
- onewithhim
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- Posts: 11097
- Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:56 pm
- Location: Norwich, CT
- Has thanked: 1578 times
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Re: But only two persons in God?
Post #16I John 5:20 refers to "his" Son Jesus Christ, so the Person who is referred to here as being the true God is God Himself and not Jesus Christ.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:35 amTrue God in 1 John 5:20 is a support interpretation that did refer to Jesus, where Christians would experience eternal life knowing the Father and Jesus. (John 17:3)onewithhim wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 12:30 pmWhy would I need a Lexicon to know the meaning of the words I wrote in my post above? Look at Psalm 83:18 in the King James Version, and also I Corinthians 8:6. How would I need a Lexicon to know the meaning of the words used therein?Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:37 pmI noticed that you don't use lexicons to know the meaning of Bible words.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 11:55 amWhat is Jesus' definition of God? Did he say God was a triune God? Actually he said clearly that the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Many other passages show that Jehovah (the Father) is the Most High, one of which is Psalm 83:18, KJV.Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:12 pmThere are three person one in the state of being God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:00 amMy son and I are "in the same state" of being in the flesh, just as God and Jesus are "in the same state" of being spirit. That is the only way they are the same. My son will never be me, nor will I ever be my son. He will never have my place in the order of things. I will always be his mother, with the last word on things pertaining to my life.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:14 pmMay I ask, are you more human than your son? Of course not. But you are in higher position, role, rank in the family than your son and you both are equal in the state of humanity. Why can't we apply this logic with Jesus?onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:08 pmIf someone is "higher in rank" that means he is superior to the person he's higher than. For Jesus to be God he would have to be identical to the Father. He is not identical, he is just a reflection of the Father. A reflection is not the same as what it reflects. The Father and Son are the same in essence or nature because they are both Spirit Persons, and not because they are both God. "Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily," or "the fullness of the Deity." (Colossians 2:9; see the NIV, the New American Standard Bible, the New American Bible, Moffatt's Translation) There is no such word as "Godhead" except in those versions aligned with the KJV. Its translators already believed that Jesus was God, so their bias shows in their translating. The word "theotes" is actually, in English, "divine quality" or "godship" or "Deity." That gives the verse an entirely different meaning. There is no "Godhead" with three Persons, but one Father and a Son that reflects the deity of the Father, the Father being God (and only the Father).Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:15 pmYes, the Father is superior to Jesus in position, rank, role and etc.onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 2:38 pm
John 14 does not picture a trinity. It mentions God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but that does not mean that they are all "God." In fact God and Jesus are distinctly separate, with the Father, God, being the Most High over even Jesus. Jesus even says that "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) So Jesus does NOT "clearly present the triune personhood of God." Quite the opposite. Read over John 14 and you can see that Jesus always defers to the Father, even saying that his words are what the Father gave him to speak (verse 24).
What would Jesus say if asked if he were God? He would say NO. "I am God's Son!" (John 10:36)
What would he say if asked "do you have a God?" He would say yes. See his words at John 20:17 and Revelation 3:12.
What would he say if asked "is there any God besides your God?" He would say NO. There is just one Most High, as seen at Psalm 83:18, KJV.
How many persons are in his God? He would say ONE. In speaking to his Father, he said: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3)
He would say that his God is the Father, Jehovah. His Father is written about throughout the Old Testament, and in relation to the Messiah that was coming. Jesus is the Messiah, so all of the references to Jehovah and the Messiah in the OT are revealing as to what their relationship is. Jehovah anointed Jesus, and Jehovah SENT him. (Isaiah 61:1,2) Jesus took all his orders from God, the Father (John 5:19; John 12:49,50).
Being superior or higher in rank than Jesus does not mean that Jesus is not God.
An employer is higher in position than the employee, but that does not mean that one is more human in nature than the other.
Just like the Father higher in rank, position or role but they are the same in the state/essence/nature as God.(Col 2:9)
Godhead Greek word "theotes" defined by lexicon as the state of being God. (Col 2:9)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
Jesus said to the Father: "YOU [are] the only true God." (John 17:3)
John 1:1 "And God was the word" Jesus and the Father just like you and your son differ in position, rank, and role but they are of the same state of being God.
Lexicon Thayer and Mounce define Greek "theotes" as Godhead, deity, divinity and state of being God.
See original Greek of Col 2:9, where Godhead or Deity I colored red.
In John 17:3, May I ask, how would a Christian experience eternal life?
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G846 dwelleth G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fulness G4138 of the G3588 Godhead G2320 bodily. G4985
Col 2:9 οτι G3754 CONJ εν G1722 PREP αυτω G846 P-DSM κατοικει G2730 V-PAI-3S παν G3956 A-NSN το G3588 T-NSN πληρωμα G4138 N-NSN της G3588 T-GSF θεοτητος G2320 N-GSF σωματικως G4985 ADV
Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς,
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
θεότης theotēs
Mounce Definition:
1x: divinity, deity, godhead, Col 2:9.
BTW, the word divine does not mean God. It means, according to an English dictionary, "Of, from, or like God or a god," not God. Moffatt's translation says this: "and the Word was divine." That translator has the meaning of "a god" correctly translated to "divine"....from God or like God.
Lexicon defined Godhead in Acts 17:29, Greek word “theios” as Trinity at the time of its usage.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
θεῖος theios
Thayer Definition:
1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks
2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity
2a) of Christ
2b) Holy Spirit
2c) the Father
Jesus' hand-picked apostle, Paul, wrote that "for us there is but one God, the Father." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)
Can a man gives you eternal life? (John 17:3) Whom has the the glory with the Father before the world was?
Yes, there are verses that refer LORD to Jesus, that His glory be revealed and all flesh shall see it together. (Isa 40:3-5)
The Father is the speaker of the whole Chapter of Zechariah 12, whom He referred Himself being pierced.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Isa 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn
Everywhere in the O.T. where the LORD appears, that is where the name of God, Jehovah, appears in the original Hebrew, including Isaiah 40:3-5. It is not referring to Jesus. Zechariah 12:10 is certainly referring to Jehovah, and is it so strange to think of Him being pierced to the heart when observing His Son being murdered?
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Re: But only two persons in God?
Post #17If you interpret verse 10 refer to the Father, then who had seen Him when He was pierced?onewithhim wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 3:25 pmI John 5:20 refers to "his" Son Jesus Christ, so the Person who is referred to here as being the true God is God Himself and not Jesus Christ.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:35 amTrue God in 1 John 5:20 is a support interpretation that did refer to Jesus, where Christians would experience eternal life knowing the Father and Jesus. (John 17:3)onewithhim wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 12:30 pmWhy would I need a Lexicon to know the meaning of the words I wrote in my post above? Look at Psalm 83:18 in the King James Version, and also I Corinthians 8:6. How would I need a Lexicon to know the meaning of the words used therein?Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:37 pmI noticed that you don't use lexicons to know the meaning of Bible words.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 13, 2024 11:55 amWhat is Jesus' definition of God? Did he say God was a triune God? Actually he said clearly that the Father is the only true God. (John 17:3) Many other passages show that Jehovah (the Father) is the Most High, one of which is Psalm 83:18, KJV.Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 10:12 pmThere are three person one in the state of being God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:00 amMy son and I are "in the same state" of being in the flesh, just as God and Jesus are "in the same state" of being spirit. That is the only way they are the same. My son will never be me, nor will I ever be my son. He will never have my place in the order of things. I will always be his mother, with the last word on things pertaining to my life.Capbook wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 3:14 pmMay I ask, are you more human than your son? Of course not. But you are in higher position, role, rank in the family than your son and you both are equal in the state of humanity. Why can't we apply this logic with Jesus?onewithhim wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:08 pmIf someone is "higher in rank" that means he is superior to the person he's higher than. For Jesus to be God he would have to be identical to the Father. He is not identical, he is just a reflection of the Father. A reflection is not the same as what it reflects. The Father and Son are the same in essence or nature because they are both Spirit Persons, and not because they are both God. "Because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily," or "the fullness of the Deity." (Colossians 2:9; see the NIV, the New American Standard Bible, the New American Bible, Moffatt's Translation) There is no such word as "Godhead" except in those versions aligned with the KJV. Its translators already believed that Jesus was God, so their bias shows in their translating. The word "theotes" is actually, in English, "divine quality" or "godship" or "Deity." That gives the verse an entirely different meaning. There is no "Godhead" with three Persons, but one Father and a Son that reflects the deity of the Father, the Father being God (and only the Father).Capbook wrote: ↑Sat Oct 19, 2024 4:15 pm
Yes, the Father is superior to Jesus in position, rank, role and etc.
Being superior or higher in rank than Jesus does not mean that Jesus is not God.
An employer is higher in position than the employee, but that does not mean that one is more human in nature than the other.
Just like the Father higher in rank, position or role but they are the same in the state/essence/nature as God.(Col 2:9)
Godhead Greek word "theotes" defined by lexicon as the state of being God. (Col 2:9)
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
Jesus said to the Father: "YOU [are] the only true God." (John 17:3)
John 1:1 "And God was the word" Jesus and the Father just like you and your son differ in position, rank, and role but they are of the same state of being God.
Lexicon Thayer and Mounce define Greek "theotes" as Godhead, deity, divinity and state of being God.
See original Greek of Col 2:9, where Godhead or Deity I colored red.
In John 17:3, May I ask, how would a Christian experience eternal life?
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G846 dwelleth G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fulness G4138 of the G3588 Godhead G2320 bodily. G4985
Col 2:9 οτι G3754 CONJ εν G1722 PREP αυτω G846 P-DSM κατοικει G2730 V-PAI-3S παν G3956 A-NSN το G3588 T-NSN πληρωμα G4138 N-NSN της G3588 T-GSF θεοτητος G2320 N-GSF σωματικως G4985 ADV
Col 2:9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς,
θεότης theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
θεότης theotēs
Mounce Definition:
1x: divinity, deity, godhead, Col 2:9.
BTW, the word divine does not mean God. It means, according to an English dictionary, "Of, from, or like God or a god," not God. Moffatt's translation says this: "and the Word was divine." That translator has the meaning of "a god" correctly translated to "divine"....from God or like God.
Lexicon defined Godhead in Acts 17:29, Greek word “theios” as Trinity at the time of its usage.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
θεῖος theios
Thayer Definition:
1) a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks
2) spoken of the only and true God, trinity
2a) of Christ
2b) Holy Spirit
2c) the Father
Jesus' hand-picked apostle, Paul, wrote that "for us there is but one God, the Father." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)
Can a man gives you eternal life? (John 17:3) Whom has the the glory with the Father before the world was?
Yes, there are verses that refer LORD to Jesus, that His glory be revealed and all flesh shall see it together. (Isa 40:3-5)
The Father is the speaker of the whole Chapter of Zechariah 12, whom He referred Himself being pierced.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Isa 40:5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn
Everywhere in the O.T. where the LORD appears, that is where the name of God, Jehovah, appears in the original Hebrew, including Isaiah 40:3-5. It is not referring to Jesus. Zechariah 12:10 is certainly referring to Jehovah, and is it so strange to think of Him being pierced to the heart when observing His Son being murdered?
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn