"Jesus was a Jew"

[Thomas123]

"Jesus was a Jew"

Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."

Yahweh

The Jesus scriptures rest under the shade of this judaic overlord. Like Isaiah before him, Jesus's reported supplications are made to this focal entity within Judaism. Jesus must therefore be considered as Jewish, not simply by birthright but more fundamentally in both intellectual and outlook conditioning.

"Jesus was a Jew." Please Debate

[Difflugia]

Obviously, the Jews thought Jesus was a Samaritan.

Not the way you are suggesting. The claim by the Pharisees was meant to be an insult and had nothing to with the Christ's real heritage! Because, Jesus (by Israelite law) was the son of Joseph and Mary, who were both from the tribe of Judah and King David.

There may have been more to it than this. John didn't mention either Joseph or Mary's lineage, but only that they were from Nazareth, which is significantly north of even Mount Gerizim. Without turning the debate to his actual lineage, it's at the very least possible that the Pharisees didn't know that Jesus was descended of one of the tribes of Judah. While they certainly were being insulting (or at least contemptuous), they may have also been suggesting that being from Nazareth, Jesus was in actual fact a Samaritan.

[Thomas123]

21 “Woman,� Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.�

The encounter with the Samaritan woman is a fascinating narrative, the form of which suggests that deep purpose is being attempted by the witness/writer. Here we see a new faith that is not defined by previous locations but rather by the radical import of it's message.

[Thomas123]

19And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. 20And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head

Both Matthew and Luke record this meeting with a Scribe. This encounter would appear to reinforce the idea that the Jesus phenomena is on the move away from The Temple and it is therefore little wonder that this is being treated with hostility and distain. The Jesus of this extract describes himself as ,'the Son of man.

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 9 by FWI]

We really can't be sure if calling Jesus a Samaritan was an insult or an observation based on physical characteristics.

[brianbbs67]

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 1 by Thomas Mc Donald]


Christ was a Jew. His apostles were Jews (and Jews did not associate with Samaritans). He not a Samaritan.

You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.




That being said, the Samaritans were also Israel.

the Samaritans were of mixed Jewish and pagan ancestry

Not quite (but close).

The world has a habit of equating Israel with being Jewish - interchanging the word Israel and Jew, but that is not accurate. Jews were descended from the two tribes of Israel (Judah and Benjamin, the southern Kingdom of "Judah"). The Samaritans were descended from the ten northern tribes of Israel (the northern Kingdom of "Israel").


This is why Christ also preached also to the Samaritans when He said He came only for the lost sheep of Israel. The Samaritans WERE Israel.


The Samaritan woman to Christ:

"... Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock?� John 4:12



Gives a bit more meaning to the parable of the good samaritan as well. Not that one should not be a good Samaritan (in the way most people understand that, just being a good neighbor to someone in need). But the Jews did not accept the Samaritans as brothers in Israel and would not associate them.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Thomas123]

Thank You brianbbs67,for bringing our attention back to Psalm 82.This may or may not be a response to an earlier underlined question of mine.If so then I must refer back to my point about a 'twisting of things'during the New Testament Jesus narrative.Please compare these two passages,
First Psalm 82
3-7 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

And now The Apostle's Creed of Catholicism

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate,

One passage alludes to a metaphorical Jewish relationship to Yahweh, as offspring would have with their Father., The other is more of a Greek/Roman mytological accession thing.

The first two lines of the Psalm clearly illustrate that the call to aid the disenfranchised, within,Judaism,is not a new 'Jesus' introduction. This religion with a Fatherly/Lordly protector grew from persecution and hardship.The Jewish model shows great empathy with the afflicted and marginalised. Let us be definite here and say,

The Jesus phenomena was a very devout Jewish revivalist movement, led and sustained by people who were intelligent and resourceful in their use of Jewish collected wisdom dating back through Isaiah, David and beyond.Jesus was,if he was anything, a devout Jew teaching a revamped version of Judaism.

I welcome any considerations on this matter.

[Thomas123]

I cannot ignore post 4 of Yahwehismywitness
An emphasised section of this states,
"To reiterate: Galileans were not “Jews� who practiced a “religion� called “Judaism"

I then proceeded to follow the link provided ,sections of which unfortunately cannot be pasted here.
The summation is telling.

"Galileans were also Israelites which along with Judean can be seen as their more encompassing entity. In a 'hierarchy of nested segments' their 'Galilean' ethnic identity was ' nested' inside this more encompassing identity."

I must therefore conclude that...

The Jesus people were Israelites, if we can agree on this. I do not want to split hairs . They were devout followers of the Yahweh God of the Old Testament.

[Thomas123]

Jew

noun
a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins through the ancient Hebrew people of Israel to Abraham.

This was my understanding of the term Jew, and it is the dictionary definition of same.
I welcome all considerations on this topic and I apologise if my use of a dictionary appears pedantic.

[Yahwehismywitness]

Jesus is called a Nazarene Matthew 2:23

Robert Eiseman James the brother of Jesus discusses this topic to mean keepers of the law or keeping observing Gospel of the Nazarene alternate name for Christianity in Palestine. On this basis his followers are called Nazrenes on page 249. Epiphanius and Jerome agree.