Faith....in 'reverse'

[Menotu]

Most understand faith as it pertains to the belief in something. But can it also mean not having a belief in something?

People have faith that God is real, exists, etc. But can other have faith that God is not real, doesn't exist, etc?

Or is faith strictly a 'religious thing'? In other words, can you only have faith in a religious thing/item?

Can an atheist have faith in their belief that God doesn't exist?

[Tcg]

Even then I am not sure that would be enough evidence to give an atheist cause to put faith in a creator. Atheist put their faith in themselves, their own knowledge and wisdom.

This amounts to little more than an ad hominem. It is one we hear repeatedly in one version or another.

Atheists lack believe in god/gods. To a certain degree this could be said to be the result in putting faith in their own judgment. The same could be said of theists who put faith in their judgement to determine that god/gods of some sort exist.

Both atheists and theists draw honest conclusions based on their judgement. This should not be considered a character flaw of either group.

Atheists draw honest conclusions, as do theists. To suggest otherwise reveals a total misrepresentation of the dynamics in play here.


Tcg

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 11 by Tcg]

Just stating facts I learned from when I was an atheist. I didn't say anything about character flaws.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 9 by Overcomer]

The Christian faith is based on evidence of many kinds -- cosmological, teleological, ontological, historical*, experiential to name a few.

Evidence is in the eye of the beholder. What you mention can be attributed to many other cultures/religions.
* Historical being the only outlier. While things historic can be denied by many (some claim the Holocaust didn't happen, after all), I don't know of any historical fact that shows any mystical God-like happenings. In other words, there's no factual proof showing any resurrection, virgin birth, etc. That's all hearsay. You may consider that historical fact, but others don't not usually because they don't want it to be true, but because outrageous claims need outrageous facts. Otherwise, it's just outrageous.

Can I prove the truth of Christianity beyond a shadow of a doubt? No

Which is why Christianity is based on faith not facts.

we all believe in things that we cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt...the reliability of our automobile

This is used a lot and it bugs the you-know-what out of me. The belief of a car's reliability is not based on faith because the purchaser has been told, seen, experienced it first hand somehow. If you were to say 'I have faith my car will be able to give birth to a new car' that would be something based on faith because it's not been seen before, is outrageous and flies in the face of everything that's known. Once the car does give birth, there's no longer faith required.

I think that you will find that your average Christian practices critical rationalism.

It's rational to believe in a creator that created all things (even things we don't know exists) and put a plan in place where himself/son had to die for the sins of those he created when he knew this would happen? Maybe if you can that rational. Many don't.
But to each their own

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 10 by 2timothy316]

There is plenty of evidence out there for faith in God and the Bible.

What many call evidence out of a need of it to be evidence isn't evidence to people who demand facts. That's the difference.
Christianity is based on faith: faith what you want to accept as evidence is evidence enough to you to accept it.
Christianity is not based on facts (outside that it's a belief system, the bible is a book about it, etc)

Many would love nothing more than to know, without any doubt (meaning facts were supplied by a creator) that a creator exists. That only happens to those who have supple definitions for evidence and facts.
And for those people, that's fine
To those who want more, Christianity is not able to supply it
That's the only real fact here.

But this is all out of scope of the OP - let's get back to it.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 10 by 2timothy316]

There is plenty of evidence out there for faith in God and the Bible.

What many call evidence out of a need of it to be evidence isn't evidence to people who demand facts. That's the difference.
Christianity is based on faith: faith what you want to accept as evidence is evidence enough to you to accept it.
Christianity is not based on facts (outside that it's a belief system, the bible is a book about it, etc)

Many would love nothing more than to know, without any doubt (meaning facts were supplied by a creator) that a creator exists. That only happens to those who have supple definitions for evidence and facts.
And for those people, that's fine
To those who want more, Christianity is not able to supply it
That's the only real fact here.

But this is all out of scope of the OP - let's get back to it.

Funny that - I would have seen your post to be within the scope of the OP.

But you wrote the OP..so I give it over to you.

Tell us then, how do we get back to the scope of the OP?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 10 by 2timothy316]

There is plenty of evidence out there for faith in God and the Bible.

On the whole it is not very compelling evidence unless one has already been inculcated with a belief and is then trying to retrofit some sort of rationalisation or validation.

Many dismiss it though because they want God to come down and talk to them face to face. Even then I am not sure that would be enough evidence to give an atheist cause to put faith in a creator.

Many dismiss it because it is largely based on hearsay and unverified claims. To suggest that a face-to-face confrontation with God himself would not be convincing is just hubris. That sort of evidence would be compelling. I wonder how anyone, believer or otherwise, would know if they had genuinely been confronted by God or Jesus or any other deity anyway.

Atheist put their faith in themselves, their own knowledge and wisdom.

That is what everyone does.

I always think of flat-earthers, people that think the world is flat. They think this way because they only accept evidence that proves what they believe in.

That is what is called confirmation bias. Flat-Earthers are wrong. Christians are people who believe in the God of the Bible. They think this way because they only accept evidence that proves to them what they believe in. They too may be wrong.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 11 by Tcg]

Just stating facts I learned from when I was an atheist.

Who taught you these "facts" when you were an atheist?

Why do you think that the "facts" you were taught as an atheist applies to all atheists?

What do you mean when you use the word atheist?

I didn't say anything about character flaws.

Of course you did. You implied that atheists would reject God even if God revealed himself.

Of course you own claim that you were once an atheist and now believe in God contradicts this claim. If you were once an atheist and now believe, you are living proof that atheists can indeed, at least in theory, reach a point that they believe in God.


Tcg

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 10 by 2timothy316]

There is plenty of evidence out there for faith in God and the Bible.

What many call evidence out of a need of it to be evidence isn't evidence to people who demand facts.

Is the Earth flat or a sphere?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 17 by Tcg]

I implied nothing. You assume and you're taking things way to personally. Do not speak for me please.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 10 by 2timothy316]

There is plenty of evidence out there for faith in God and the Bible.

On the whole it is not very compelling evidence unless one has already been inculcated with a belief and is then trying to retrofit some sort of rationalisation or validation.

Not true. My evidence comes from the things around me, like the Earth. Is the Earth existing not a fact to you? Do you think that the Earth is actually not here?

Do you think the Earth is flat or a sphere? Can you prove to me that the Earth is here and whether it's flat or a sphere? Can you build my faith in these teachings.