Male domination

[Menotu]

While the New Testament seems to allow more freedom to women, at least in the interaction Jesus is said to have had (ignoring the whole 'Jesus was married' idea), the bible, overall, is very male dominated. There are modern spins on it being taught in some churches, but by in large, it seems like Christianity is (and certainly has been taught) that men are the head of the household, bread winner, etc.

Some churches don't allow women to be leaders in the same way men are allowed to be leaders. The bible doesn't seem to be too 'woke'.

Even God is a 'he' and not a 'she' or 'it' (at least in modern editions of the bible).
Why is that?
Is it justified?
Should women be allowed a more 'leadership' roles in their churches/religion, or should status quo remain?
Any why?

[brianbbs67]

You summed it up pretty well. That is what the bible says. I tend to follow that, but part of me wonders. Have we made a god of the bible? Of course, what else do we have to go upon other than the bible. Maybe the bible should be accepted until its disproven as a whole.

While I'm not one to defend every Christian or Christian actions (as I think most of them aren't beneficial and of those, most are hiding hate behind their faith purposefully) I think sometimes Christians get chastised wrongly.
I see, many times, people challenge them to prove this or that, knowing there is no way to prove it because it's a belief system that requires faith. Then they belittle them.
But I see Christians do that to non-believers almost as much, if not more, I must point out.
While that's not for me anymore (and I hope all others see it that way eventually), Christians are working with what they have.
What I think sours most people on Christianity is the arrogance so many Christians flaunt and the inability for some many to say 'I don't know' or 'I believe this or that but I may be wrong.'
I think the ability to admit the possibility of not being right would go a long way for most non-believers.

We all could be wrong. The truth seekers among humanity acknowledge this. Why a human could say they are not wrong based on the bible written by ???, is unfathomable. I find great truth in a lot of it. Some of it , should be rightly divided as the book says. I don't recall anyone talking to God and Him saying everything we have written is true. (not the whole compilation, anyway) SO, looking into it is a mission of seeking and finding and not finding, sometimes.

[marco]

As one of Jehovahs Witnesses I believe the bible model is not up for negotiation or modification and should remain the basis for how the congregation should be organized because that is what God has mandated in his word. Positions of leadership within the congregation should not be given given to women.

It is brave to follow one's teachings consistently even when they are absurd. What's the point of doing only what common sense directs us to do - the harder thing is to oppose reason and common sense. Well done. Thankfully I have close relatives, mere women, who have risen to the top of the leadership tree. I wonder what would prevent them from imbibing some bible words and regurgitating them?

You might be pleased to know your ideas on the place of women coincide with those of the Turkish President ErdoÄŸan.

“A women who rejects motherhood, who refrains from being around the house, however successful her working life is, is deficient, is incomplete."

Presumably he too is following some ancient prescription.

[JehovahsWitness]

It is brave to follow one's teachings consistently ....

Thank you. I dont see it as brave, so much as wise, especially when they are based in divine commands. Still, I appreciate you positive response, we know God knows best how humans should organise worship and we are of course grateful he loves us enough to provide guidelines.


JW

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 10 by onewithhim]

My post was a FYI.......what did I miss?
I just wanted to nail down the NT doctrine that Christian women are 2nd class citizens in the Christian worldview. DO YOU AGREE?

[JehovahsWitness]

I just wanted to nail down the NT doctrine that Christian women are 2nd class citizens in the Christian worldview. DO YOU AGREE?

No of course we don't agree, why would you suggest such a thing?


JW

[PinSeeker]

As one of Jehovahs Witnesses I believe the bible model is not up for negotiation or modification and should remain the basis for how the congregation should be organized because that is what God has mandated in his word. Positions of leadership within the congregation should not be given given to women.

It is brave to follow one's teachings consistently even when they are absurd. What's the point of doing only what common sense directs us to do - the harder thing is to oppose reason and common sense. Well done. Thankfully I have close relatives, mere women, who have risen to the top of the leadership tree. I wonder what would prevent them from imbibing some bible words and regurgitating them?

You might be pleased to know your ideas on the place of women coincide with those of the Turkish President ErdoÄŸan.

“A women who rejects motherhood, who refrains from being around the house, however successful her working life is, is deficient, is incomplete."

Presumably he too is following some ancient prescription.

Well, wouldn't we apply the same quote above while substituting the words 'man' for 'fatherhood,' 'woman' for 'motherhood,' and 'his' for 'her?' It seems so. To wit:

• “A man who rejects fatherhood, who refrains from being around the house, however successful his working life is, is deficient, is incomplete."

I certainly would -- and I hope all Christians would -- because it's every bit as true.

For the record, most Christians, I believe, would disagree with the statement that "(p)ositions of leadership within the congregation should not be given given to women." What many would say, rather -- because many would disagree with this, sadly -- is that:

• * there are appropriate positions of leadership within the congregation for men and women;
  
  * these positions of leadership are, generally speaking, complementary, rather than exactly the same;
  
  * no position in the congregation (of leadership or otherwise) is more important than any other.

In other words, there are positions of leadership appropriate and exclusive to men in the congregation, and there are positions of leadership appropriate and exclusive to women in the congregation. They are different but complementary, and one is not somehow "more important" than the other.

Grace and peace to you, marco.

[onewithhim]

You summed it up pretty well. That is what the bible says. I tend to follow that, but part of me wonders. Have we made a god of the bible? Of course, what else do we have to go upon other than the bible. Maybe the bible should be accepted until its disproven as a whole.

While I'm not one to defend every Christian or Christian actions (as I think most of them aren't beneficial and of those, most are hiding hate behind their faith purposefully) I think sometimes Christians get chastised wrongly.
I see, many times, people challenge them to prove this or that, knowing there is no way to prove it because it's a belief system that requires faith. Then they belittle them.
But I see Christians do that to non-believers almost as much, if not more, I must point out.
While that's not for me anymore (and I hope all others see it that way eventually), Christians are working with what they have.
What I think sours most people on Christianity is the arrogance so many Christians flaunt and the inability for some many to say 'I don't know' or 'I believe this or that but I may be wrong.'
I think the ability to admit the possibility of not being right would go a long way for most non-believers.

We all could be wrong. The truth seekers among humanity acknowledge this. Why a human could say they are not wrong based on the bible written by ???, is unfathomable. I find great truth in a lot of it. Some of it , should be rightly divided as the book says. I don't recall anyone talking to God and Him saying everything we have written is true. (not the whole compilation, anyway) SO, looking into it is a mission of seeking and finding and not finding, sometimes.

But, brian, aren't we, on these threads, considering Christianity in the light of what the Bible says? Of course, without the Bible, we would all have to admit we could be wrong. But according to the Bible we say thus-and-so.

But you are right--we all have to seek, we have to study and meditate on what we read, pray, and draw conclusions based on what we have uncovered.

"Earnestly study to show yourself approved to God, a workman unashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2Timothy 2:15, The Interlinear Bible, Hendrickson)



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[onewithhim]

As one of Jehovahs Witnesses I believe the bible model is not up for negotiation or modification and should remain the basis for how the congregation should be organized because that is what God has mandated in his word. Positions of leadership within the congregation should not be given given to women.

It is brave to follow one's teachings consistently even when they are absurd.

It would be "brave," but we don't think that the teachings we follow are absurd.
Did you really read our comments about the teaching that women/wives are to be treated like fine China? It seems like people are just skipping over those entreaties that are in the Bible.


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[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 10 by onewithhim]

My post was a FYI.......what did I miss?
I just wanted to nail down the NT doctrine that Christian women are 2nd class citizens in the Christian worldview. DO YOU AGREE?

Using the Bible, define a 2nd class citizen please. For that matter, using the Bible define a 1st class citizen.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 10 by onewithhim]

My post was a FYI.......what did I miss?
I just wanted to nail down the NT doctrine that Christian women are 2nd class citizens in the Christian worldview. DO YOU AGREE?

NO! That's why I said to go through our posts, if you haven't already. The NT does not speak of women in terms of 2nd class citizens. I think we have proved that.


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