In preaching to Jews,

[Elijah John]

Jesus preached to Jews, and all of his first apostles and disciples were Jews.

For debate, what did Jesus preach that was not already provided by devout observance of Judaism? How was his message different than that or any reforming Jew of the day?

From Luke:

"they have Moses and the Prophets, if they don't listen to them, neither will they listen if someone were to rise from the dead".

[Tcg]

I was speaking to a secular friend last week and he was convinced he was a good person (ie - the pride side of the equation).

What evidence can you provide, other than your bias against secular people, that he wasn't a good person?


Tcg

[Elijah John]

I was speaking to a secular friend last week and he was convinced he was a good person (ie - the pride side of the equation).

What evidence can you provide, other than your bias against secular people, that he wasn't a good person?


Tcg

Good question, and good ought not be confused with perfect.

[Wootah]

I was speaking to a secular friend last week and he was convinced he was a good person (ie - the pride side of the equation).

What evidence can you provide, other than your bias against secular people, that he wasn't a good person?


Tcg

Oh he was a good person. Just that none of us are good enough for the glory and magnificence of life eternal with a holy and righteous God.

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Jesus claimed to be The Messiah....but never fulfilled any of the Messianic prophecies from the Hebrew Scriptures.

[Red Wolf]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

The main theme of Jesus preaching was God's kingdom (a govenment) that would solve all mankinds problems.

Jesus more about the Kingdom than about any other subject—more than love, more than mercy more than his own name - referring to it more than 100 times during his ministry, he taught his followers to pray for it and showed them by example how they could be part of it.

The Jews knew to expect a ruling king, the promised Messiah, but they did not know how that rulership would be established or what it would mean for humanity. Jesus revealed that it would not be an earthly government, established through the soliciting of human support but a government in heaven (" the kingdom of the heavens") given power directly by Almighty God himself.

The Jews knew somehow that this future king would be a liberator but Jesus taught they needed to think bigger, way bigger. Bigger as in a liberators from sin and death, bigger as in freeing all humanity from oppression, suffering and sadness. Bigger as in eternal life in heaven for a few and on earth for a multitude. He tried to teach them that their animal sacrifices were pointing towards something, somethjng bigger, earth changing, universal, and that that "something more" was him.

Some understood, sadly most did not.



JW






RELATED POSTS

What is Gods Kingdom?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 867#956867

Is Heaven in your future?

God promised that the righteous would live on earth.
Psalm 37:9-11 (New American Standard Bible)
9For evildoers will be cut off,
But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the land.
10Yet a little while and the wicked man will be no more;
And you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there.
11But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.

God promised Abraham and his descendants the land of Canaan as an everlasting possession.
Genesis 17:8 (New American Standard Bible)
8"I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

Abraham died without ever receiving even a foot of land. [Acts 7:5]
The presumption is that Abraham will receive the land in a future resurrection. [Ezekiel 37:4-6]

Matthew 5:5 (New American Standard Bible)
5"Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

Revelation 5:10 (New American Standard Bible)
10"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Is the promise for a future with a body on earth?
Or is the promise for a future as a Spirit in Heaven?

[PinSeeker]

Is the promise for a future with a body on earth?
Or is the promise for a future as a Spirit in Heaven?

With a physical body on earth. But we will be completely -- 100% -- of the Holy Spirit... spiritual. We will have completely put of the "old man" and put on the "new." There will be no more sin, and God will have wiped every tear from our eyes. Everlasting joy upon our heads, and we will have found gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing will faded away. It's gonna be AWESOME.

Grace and peace to you, Red Wolf.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 15 by PinSeeker]

There will be no more sin, and God will have wiped every tear from our eyes. Everlasting joy upon our heads, and we will have found gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing will faded away.

God failed miserably to achieve that the first time around so what makes you so sure that his plan won't go belly up again?

[onewithhim]

The Jews were expecting the Messiah to come and establish the Messianic kingdom. There are numerous prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures concerning the Messiah and the future Kingdom....unfortunately Jesus did not fulfill any of the prophecies of the OT.

He certainly did. They just did not have an understanding that the Messiah would come first to die and save them from their iniquities (Isaiah chapter 53), and then later, in the distant future, would rule the world. It's all there in the Old Testament.

Daniel chapters 2,4 and 9
Isaiah chapters 9 and 11

The Messiah was prophesied to be temporarily killed from Genesis---chapter 3, verse 15. The Jewish leaders, though, did not teach the people what the Scriptures said. I guess they had to read it on their own. Some were expecting Him according to the timing of Daniel 9:24-27.



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What about Isaiah 53? Tell me what you think it says

I KNOW, from reading it, that it is talking about the Messiah---the "suffering servant." He is described to be just what Jesus endured when on Earth. It is not speaking about the nation of Israel. It couldn't be because it says that the suffering servant had no deceit or violence in his make-up. The nation of Israel had plenty of it.

God said of Israel: "My people did not listen to my voice; Israel would not submit to me. So I let them follow their stubborn hearts; they did what they thought was right. If only my people would listen to me, if only Israel would walk in my ways! Their enemies I would quickly subdue; I would turn my hand against their adversaries." (Psalm 81:11-14)

It is clear that the nation needed help. They were inundated with problems brought on by themselves, and they were not living according to Jehovah's commands.

Notice how the nation matched what Isaiah said about what the suffering servant is NOT:

"For her rich men are full of violence, and her inhabitants speak LIES; their tongue is deceitful in their mouth." (Micah 6:12)


Therefore, the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 could not be the nation of Israel.




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[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

Jesus claimed to be The Messiah....but never fulfilled any of the Messianic prophecies from the Hebrew Scriptures.

Yes he did. He fulfilled everything in Isaiah 53, and more.



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[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 14 by Red Wolf]

The promise is for a physical body and life on an earth made into a paradise, forever.

"The righteous will possess the land and live on it FOREVER." (Psalm 37:29)


Did you read ANY of the thread "Paradise on Earth?"



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