Why are the number of Jehovah Witnesses decreasing so much?

[polonius]

PEW reports that:

"Jehovah’s Witnesses have a low retention rate relative to other U.S. religious groups. Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group. By contrast, about two-thirds of those who were raised as evangelical Protestants (65%) and Mormons (64%) still say they are members of those respective groups."

Why, and what will be the long term effect?

[Divine Insight]

I have studied with the JW's for dozens of hours. I dont mind them, i like them.

I am only familiar with the JW's that come to my door as I don't seek out religious people. I can say that I have never met a JW who wasn't a very friendly and nice person. So I don't even mind them coming. I never invite them into my house, but if they come in the summer time I'll sit out on deck and chat with them for as long as they like, providing I'm not busy with something.

I actually enjoy talking with them because every point they bring up I have a very good answer for why I have already considered those ideas and have rejected them. I might add that none of them have ever brought up an issue that I hadn't already given much thought.

What I find interesting is that they seem to be far more interested in my explanations for why I don't buy into what they have been taught. They usually seem quite surprised that I have given all these issues so much thought. I guess most people they visit typically aren't interested or don't really care about the questions.

In any case, one guy in particular came one day and during our conversations I explained to him why I felt that Buddhism is a far more interesting religion than the Abrahamic or Biblical religions. He became quite interested and intrigued and wanted to learn more about Buddhism. Instead of offering me pamphlets when he left he was asking me what books I would recommend on Buddhism.

What I often sense from JW's is that they are actually still searching for something. That's probably how they got involved with JW in the first place. And they clearly haven't found what they were looking for. So they are still hungry for new possibilities. This probably explains why so many people don't stay in the religion.

By the way, showing that they are increasing by number is meaningless. The population on the earth is increasing. What they need to do is increase in terms of percentage of the population, and from everything I've heard they are actually decreasing in terms of percentage of the population.

You see, the following chart is absolutely meaningless because it just reports the total number of people that associate with the religion. But the world population is increasing exponentially. So JW can actually be declining in terms of percentage of population even though it is growing in absolute numbers. This is why you really need to be careful about charts like these. They don't represent what's actually happening in the big picture:

[JehovahsWitness]

JW can actually be declining in terms of percentage of population even though it is growing in absolute numbers.

Well, growth in absolute numbers is just fine with us. The overall growth is what we are interested in, not keeping up with the world birth rate.

NOTE The global birth rate is around 1.08% per year, the JWs rate is about 1.5% so we actually are increasing in proportion to the global population as well, not that that's important to us. Just saying.

PS: I looked up Switzerland (because the JW population I'd comparable, and saw that in 2016 they had about 10 babies an hour. Jehovahs Witness are increasing much faster as we have an average of 30 new members per hour
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/ba ... h/42539352

[JehovahsWitness]

There is an interesting discussion to be had about why those raised as JWs are leaving the movement. However, this thread is definitely a bait and switch.

I agree. I did address the retention rate in an earlier post. Although it's not the topic I think it seems reasonable and it is to our merit. Antithesis often object that people follow the religion of their parents and that we are in a particular religion only because of "childhood indoctrination" but the Jehovahs Witness religion can produce verifiable proof that those that rest do so out of choice since more than half chose to walk away (and that's fine) and our growth comes from "adult converts".

The Jehovah's Witness retention figures of about 40% are not "low" its normal. We don't baptised our babies and you are not considered a Jehovahs Witness because your parents are JWs. If you were to stop 10 people on the street how many would say, I would like to be Jehovah's Witness, very few! While "bad press", misunderstandings, and lack of contact would all factor in, the retention figures should reflect the balance of adult informed choice . ( For example the Islamic world retention figures are practically 100% because if you try and leave your parents have the right to kill you) . More than 60% of individuals raised in JWs household choose another path, obviously we don't take the Islamic route.

A religion where all (or nearly all) the offspring follows the religion of their parents is one that indicates lack of informed choice*.

* Of course if everyone raised in a Witness family chose to leave the faith that might (there are other factors that come into play, but it might...) be a red flag.

There is a village I Mexico where about 50% of the inhabitants are Jehovah's Witnesses. Those figures mean that everyone in the village knows about and has personal contact with JWs but that doesn't mean 100% will choose to become one. It is normal that people choose their faith even those raised in Witness homes. When you examine the religions with a near total retention rate it's usually because you can still identify as being a member without any active participation, cultural and traditional bonds require a minimal amount of participation and/ or there are religious and secular laws which limit free choice.

If all the religions counted their membership like JWs do, their "retention figures" would probably be in single digits.

[Elijah John]

That is correct, we have very much stricter standard for membership. In any case the JW figures are not decreasing. As I explained one shouldn't confuse detention levels with overall growth.


JW

Do you see low retention numbers as a problem? In the workplace, jobs with high turnover and low retention raises eyebrows and arouses suspicion. Perhaps needlessly strict policies, rules and regulations provoke rebellion. Understandably so.

[JehovahsWitness]

Do you see low retention numbers as a problem? .

No. I explained how I see things HERE
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 212#982212

...and again HERE
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 321#982321

[JehovahsWitness]

In the workplace, jobs with high turnover and low retention raises eyebrows and arouses suspicion.

The difference is one chooses to join a workforce, but one doesn't choose where one is born. So one would expect a worker to stick to his post, having signed a contract to do so, not so a child born to Witness parents. He has yet to make a choice and is free to choose not to follow the religion of his parents, not necessrily because the religion is "bad" or abusive but because it is not for him. Or he chooses to be an atheist. Or prefers Buddism or wants no religion at all.


CONVERT RETENTION FIGURES

• I don't know the figures of adults (and young people) that a made mature informed choice to become Jehovah's Witnesses but I should think that "retention" would be in the 90's.... or at least much higher than comparable religions (I read a report by the Mormons lamenting that they couldn't hold on to their "converts" like the Jehovahs Witnesses - I'll see if I can find that it made for man interesting read).

Perhaps needlessly strict policies, rules and regulations provoke rebellion.

ARE JEHOVAHS WITNESSES NEEDLESSLY STRICT?

• Whether our religion is needlessly strict or not is subjective. The point is nobody becomes a Jehovah's Witness without being fully aware of what is involved and ready to make such a serious lifelong commitment. Of course there are some in this category for whatever reason decide not to continue, but that is true of any adult/mature religious converts. Considering how difficult our religion is to follow, that we're growing at all is a modern day miracle.
  
  As long as new potential converts are fully informed of what would be expected of them, and are free not to commit to the rules that govern that religion and leave when they want, then there is no reason to deem it "suspicious" . Is it "suspiouse" that Catholic nuns are expected not to marry, or have sex and not to raise a family? As long as a girl knows what is involved she is free to join such a group if that be her hearts desire. If she finds her desires change and she wants to leave she is free to do so, is she not? And that without casting aspersions on the calling she leaves behind.

NOTE We don't have "rebellions" we have a door. Anyone is free to fetch their hat and coat and walk through it at anytime.

[2timothy316]

That is correct, we have very much stricter standard for membership. In any case the JW figures are not decreasing. As I explained one shouldn't confuse detention levels with overall growth.


JW

Do you see low retention numbers as a problem? In the workplace, jobs with high turnover and low retention raises eyebrows and arouses suspicion. Perhaps needlessly strict policies, rules and regulations provoke rebellion. Understandably so.

No. It's not a problem and we don't care if it raises eyebrows or suspicion. All of these things are expected. Matthew 13:1-23 says that not everyone will have a heart of 'fine soil'.

There are those that see those rules and regulations the Bible provides as a protection. Some see it as a cage that keeps them from what they want to do. What those people forget is there is a lion outside the cage seeking to devour people outside the cage. If they want to be out there with the lion, than they are out there at their own risk. The rest of us are waiting for the lion to be put down. Meanwhile we live happy lives free of the consequences that come with disobeying God's principles. After all Jesus said the road to life was narrow and cramped.

We as a religion have do not have near the problems of other churches because of the higher standards. This also keeps people out that cause drama and in some cases cause really dire situations. Not that we are free of these things but the levels are really low compared to other religions. We like to put it, we try to be the best people an imperfect people can be.

[Overcomer]

JehovahsWitness wrote:

NOTE We don't have "rebellions" we have a door. Anyone is free to fetch their hat and coat and walk through it at anytime.

But is it not true that those who leave your religion are "disfellowshipped"? This article from the JW library explains how to deal with people, including family members, who leave the church:

https://wol.jw.org/ase/wol/d/r266/lp-asl/202002285

From that article:

The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, says: “A simple ‘Hello’ to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?�

Seriously? You can't even be polite to a person? And if you don't ever get into a conversation with someone, how do you expect to win them back? Or don't you care about that? Because, if you truly believe your religion represents the the one and only truth, how can you NOT talk to someone about it, even if they are no longer part of your fellowship?

Then there's this story:

After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.

What mother, upon being told by her children that they would have nothing to do with her unless it was an urgent matter, wouldn't re-join a group, even if she detested it, just to maintain ties with her kids? This seems like emotional blackmail to me.

Jesus ate with sinners. But JWs are told not to do the same with people who have left the JW church. What's wrong with this picture?

[2timothy316]

JehovahsWitness wrote:

NOTE We don't have "rebellions" we have a door. Anyone is free to fetch their hat and coat and walk through it at anytime.

But is it not true that those who leave your religion are "disfellowshipped"? This article from the JW library explains how to deal with people, including family members, who leave the church:

https://wol.jw.org/ase/wol/d/r266/lp-asl/202002285

From that article:

The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, says: “A simple ‘Hello’ to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?�

Yep, we fully support 1 Cor 5:11, "“Stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.�

and 2 John 9-11, "Do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.�

Seriously? You can't even be polite to a person?

Nope. So why do we follow it? 1 John 5:3, "For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments."

[2timothy316]

Jesus ate with sinners.

Not with Judas though. (John 13:27-30)