Jesus and Satan

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:41 am

Regarding the episode of Jesus temptation in the wilderness, he is said to have been alone at the time, no other people with him.

So how does the Gospel Evangelist know what went on there? The dialogue between Jesus and Satan.

Did Jesus recount the event to his apostles, verbatim? Does that sound like something Jesus would do? To tell of his temptations?

Or is it more likely the Gospel Evangelist was taking a bit of literary license. And from a literary standpoint, what was the Evangelist trying to tell us about Jesus and/or his mission?

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:28 pm

PinSeeker wrote:
Tcg wrote: Nothing in the text supports your claim: "of course he told them."
Agreed.

What we do know is, all Scripture is God-breathed (1 Timothy 3:16). Yes, various men wrote different parts of the Bible over a long period of time, and experientially speaking, at least most of what we read were their own words, out of their own heads and from their own pen. But God worked in them so that they would will and work according to His own good pleasure (Philippians 2:13). Therefore, ultimately speaaking, God's words are conveyed and not merely those of the writers. It is possible that Jesus explained what happened and recounted everything in person to Matthew so that Matthew could then relate it to us, but if that were the case, I think Matthew probably have actually written that and thus told us that. What I would say, rather, is that Matthew was able to relate to Jesus's experiences in the desert and His exchange with Satan in the same way that Moses was able to relate to us all the events of, for example, Genesis 1 through 3 -- via the Holy Spirit, Who is the third Person of our triune God, and, spiritually speaking, the breath of God.

Grace and peace to all here.

This is interesting conjecture. However, nothing in the actual text under consideration supports this conclusion either.

Tcg

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:43 pm

Tcg wrote: This is interesting conjecture. However, nothing in the actual text under consideration supports this conclusion either.

In your opinion. They are, ultimately, the words of God, spoken/written by Matthew. Exactly how is really not relevant. "Conjecture" this is not.

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:50 pm

PinSeeker wrote:
Tcg wrote: This is interesting conjecture. However, nothing in the actual text under consideration supports this conclusion either.
In your opinion. They are, ultimately, the words of God, spoken/written by Matthew. Exactly how is really not relevant. "Conjecture" this is not.

Accepting that these are the words of God does not prove that the Holy Spirit related the words of Jesus to Matthew. That is pure conjecture on your part.

Being the Holy Spirit and all, certainly he would have the ability to create literary devices that aren't necessarily literally true. Humans possess that ability so certainly a divine being would also.

Tcg

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:03 pm

Tcg wrote:
PinSeeker wrote: In your opinion. They are, ultimately, the words of God, spoken/written by Matthew. Exactly how is really not relevant. "Conjecture" this is not.
Accepting that these are the words of God does not prove that the Holy Spirit related the words of Jesus to Matthew.

It is just not said explicitly, except of course in 1 Timothy 3:16-17, which says that all Scripture -- which of course includes all of Matthew's Gospel -- is God-breathed. And this is most assuredly the work of the Holy Spirit, Who Himself is the breath of God.

Tcg wrote: That is pure conjecture on your part.

Not at all.

Grace and peace to you, Tcg.

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:07 pm

PinSeeker wrote:
Tcg wrote:
PinSeeker wrote: In your opinion. They are, ultimately, the words of God, spoken/written by Matthew. Exactly how is really not relevant. "Conjecture" this is not.
Accepting that these are the words of God does not prove that the Holy Spirit related the words of Jesus to Matthew.
It is just not said explicitly, except of course in 1 Timothy 3:16-17, which says that all Scripture -- which of course includes all of Matthew's Gospel -- is God-breathed. And this is most assuredly the work of the Holy Spirit, Who Himself is the breath of God.

It is not said at all.

Tcg wrote: That is pure conjecture on your part.
Not at all.

Of course it is for the reasons I have clearly stated and you have ignored.

Tcg

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Tcg wrote: It is not said at all.

I respect your opinion, but it is just that... your opinion.

Tcg wrote: Of course it is for the reasons I have clearly stated...

Again, I respect your opinion, but it is just that... your opinion.

Tcg wrote: ...and you have ignored.

Right, because they miss the point entirely. Which seems to be a recurring pattern.

Grace and peace to you, Tcg.

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:24 pm

PinSeeker wrote:
Tcg wrote: It is not said at all.
I respect your opinion, but it is just that... your opinion.

It is a fact. If you disagree, please quote from the passage under consideration where your conjecture is mentioned.

Tcg wrote: Of course it is for the reasons I have clearly stated...
Again, I respect your opinion, but it is just that... your opinion.

Nope, it is another fact you continue to ignore.

Tcg wrote: ...and you have ignored.
Right, because they miss the point entirely. Which seems to be a recurring pattern.

They address the point directly. You've provided nothing to suggest that the Holy Spirit revealed the words of Jesus to Matthew. That is the point.

Tcg

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:35 pm

Tcg wrote: ...please quote from the passage under consideration where your conjecture is mentioned.

I already did (twice), but will again; the inference is crystal clear from 1 Timoty 3:16-17. Choosing to turn a deaf ear to it is unfortunate, but certainly your prerogative.

Tcg wrote: They address the point directly.

They don't, but I understand why you think they do.

Tcg wrote: You've provided nothing to suggest that the Holy Spirit revealed the words of Jesus to Matthew.

For the fourth time now, 1 Timothy 3:16-17.

Tcg wrote: That is the point.

Right, your erroneous point. It is what it is.

Grace and peace to you, Tcg.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:51 pm

[Replying to post 18 by PinSeeker]

When that passage from ! Timothy was written, the only inspired Scripture was the Tanakh. The "Old" Testament. Doubtful Paul was referring to the Synoptics as inspired. Even if they existed at the time, they were not part of any inspired or authoritative canon in Paul's day and age.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:37 pm

Elijah John wrote: [Replying to post 18 by PinSeeker]

When that passage from ! Timothy was written, the only inspired Scripture was the Tanakh. The "Old" Testament. Doubtful Paul was referring to the Synoptics as inspired. Even if they existed at the time, they were not part of any inspired or authoritative canon in Paul's day and age.

And scripture is an English invention. Writings was the Greek word, IIRR.