Now that Pope Benedict revoked the doctrine of Limbo and admitted that there never was evidence for "limbo" where unbaptized infants who died with original sin on their soul went, has the Catholic church dropped Augustine's claim based on a bible transnational error (the "in quo" error) that we were all born guilty of Adam's sin ( call original sin in all others) and deserved eternal punishment?
If so, has the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which was never believed by the Eastern Catholic Church, been revoked as well?
Is there any actual evidence for Original sin?
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William
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Post #11
@
jergarmar: One evidence is the ubiquity of human depravity. That is, across time and across the globe, there is evidence of atrocities committed by people, not in spite of having things like power and money, but because of having these things.
William: No - it is definitely 'in spite of'. The evidence is in that poor people can display acts of cruelty just as the rich can.
Not having the things that money can buy doesn't mean one will not act atrociously.
jergarmar: Put another way, if you had ultimate power and wealth, do you think you would be able to avoid the corrupting influences of them?
William: Certainly.
jergarmar: Why is it that these things, which are not evil in themselves but common and necessary, so often cause people to behave in ways that are generally agreed on as "depraved" or "wicked" or "cruel", or some other negative moral designation?
William: Because we are maturing as a species. This means that we can identify that which is 'good' or 'evil' and simply chose which to use.
Call it "The Teenager Phase" if it helps.
Once we mature fully, we will choose to see things other than in the black and white duplicity of 'good' and 'evil'.
Provided of course, those who can do and are prepared to, actually survive the Global Warming.
They have no choice but to try...and plenty of money to invest in such an undertaking.
jergarmar: Many long-standing governments, and perhaps most of the most wealthy nations, are set up to have some kind of "balance of power", assuming that having power centered in one person, or even one political body, is detrimental to the society of that nation.
"Original sin" is just another word for the kind of "natural but bad predilections" that seem to typify human interactions.
William: It is the attitude which reasons along the lines that "The systems might not be perfect, but it is all we have."
We can change that, if we all wanted to..."Sin" appears to be preventing us from seeing this.
jergarmar: One evidence is the ubiquity of human depravity. That is, across time and across the globe, there is evidence of atrocities committed by people, not in spite of having things like power and money, but because of having these things.
William: No - it is definitely 'in spite of'. The evidence is in that poor people can display acts of cruelty just as the rich can.
Not having the things that money can buy doesn't mean one will not act atrociously.
jergarmar: Put another way, if you had ultimate power and wealth, do you think you would be able to avoid the corrupting influences of them?
William: Certainly.
jergarmar: Why is it that these things, which are not evil in themselves but common and necessary, so often cause people to behave in ways that are generally agreed on as "depraved" or "wicked" or "cruel", or some other negative moral designation?
William: Because we are maturing as a species. This means that we can identify that which is 'good' or 'evil' and simply chose which to use.
Call it "The Teenager Phase" if it helps.
Once we mature fully, we will choose to see things other than in the black and white duplicity of 'good' and 'evil'.
Provided of course, those who can do and are prepared to, actually survive the Global Warming.
They have no choice but to try...and plenty of money to invest in such an undertaking.
jergarmar: Many long-standing governments, and perhaps most of the most wealthy nations, are set up to have some kind of "balance of power", assuming that having power centered in one person, or even one political body, is detrimental to the society of that nation.
"Original sin" is just another word for the kind of "natural but bad predilections" that seem to typify human interactions.
William: It is the attitude which reasons along the lines that "The systems might not be perfect, but it is all we have."
We can change that, if we all wanted to..."Sin" appears to be preventing us from seeing this.
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Post #12
@
polonius: How do you account for the fact that all non-baptized children went to hell even if they died before sin was possible for them?
William: I do not credit any thing as being fact simply because I am told it is fact.
ttruscott: Is it not a fact Catholic doctrine teaches this?
William: Perhaps it is? But what of that? How does this amount to evidence that it is an actual fact? That was my position of argument.
polonius: How do you account for the fact that all non-baptized children went to hell even if they died before sin was possible for them?
William: I do not credit any thing as being fact simply because I am told it is fact.
ttruscott: Is it not a fact Catholic doctrine teaches this?
William: Perhaps it is? But what of that? How does this amount to evidence that it is an actual fact? That was my position of argument.
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ttruscott
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Post #13
How can there be?It is a blasphemy to even think that HE might create HIS Bride as pestulant and corrupt in sin by making her human in Adam!
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. Surely this means that HE cannot do or create evil in any way by any method any more than a match can be struck and darkness come out and fill a room! If you think this verse means something else I'd love to hear what that is but please, no more theology proving that creating us as men in Adam is NOT creating us to be sinners and evil.
Do we believe Mark 3:23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand." ? Is not the holy side of this syllogism IF GOD drives our Satan's evil, how can HE create the evil HE hates? IF GOD hates wickedness: and has no wickedness in HIM, Psalm 92:15 proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him.” and Psalm 5:4 For You are not a God who delights in wickedness; no evil can dwell with You., how can we say that HE created wicked people by having them born as men in Adam without being a house divided? Both things cannot be true at the same time because they are opposites. IF HE cannot dwell with the wicked, how can HE have created them / us, especially HIS Bride, as evil in Adam?
Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Christ is good so cannot create evil people by making them human in Adam's sin, especially those HE chose before the foundation of the world to be HIS Bride!!! What foolishness is this??
James 3:11 Can both fresh water and bitter water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers, can a fig tree grow olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.… Though this is about words, how much more is it about the creation of people who are more important than words?
1 John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. Surely this means that HE cannot do or create evil in any way by any method any more than a match can be struck and darkness come out and fill a room! If you think this verse means something else I'd love to hear what that is but please, no more theology proving that creating us as men in Adam is NOT creating us to be sinners and evil.
Do we believe Mark 3:23 So Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand." ? Is not the holy side of this syllogism IF GOD drives our Satan's evil, how can HE create the evil HE hates? IF GOD hates wickedness: and has no wickedness in HIM, Psalm 92:15 proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him.” and Psalm 5:4 For You are not a God who delights in wickedness; no evil can dwell with You., how can we say that HE created wicked people by having them born as men in Adam without being a house divided? Both things cannot be true at the same time because they are opposites. IF HE cannot dwell with the wicked, how can HE have created them / us, especially HIS Bride, as evil in Adam?
Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Christ is good so cannot create evil people by making them human in Adam's sin, especially those HE chose before the foundation of the world to be HIS Bride!!! What foolishness is this??
James 3:11 Can both fresh water and bitter water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers, can a fig tree grow olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.… Though this is about words, how much more is it about the creation of people who are more important than words?
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
Post #14
William wrote: @
polonius: How do you account for the fact that all non-baptized children went to hell even if they died before sin was possible for them?
William: I do not credit any thing as being fact simply because I am told it is fact.
ttruscott: Is it not a fact Catholic doctrine teaches this?
William: Perhaps it is? But what of that? How does this amount to evidence that it is an actual fact? That was my position of argument.
RESPONSE:
"Hold most firmly and never doubt that, not only adults with the use of reason but also children who either begin to live in the womb of their mothers and who die there or, already born from their mothers, pass from this world without the Sacrament of Holy Baptism, which is given in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, must be punished with the endless penalty of eternal fire. Even if they have no sin from their own actions, still, by their carnal conception and birth, they have contracted the damnation of Original Sin."
—Bishop St. Fulgentius[
Later on the absurdity of this saintly teaching was realized and it was taught that the hell unbaptized infants went to wasn't as hot as regular hell.
Still later someong took pity on the blameless but sinful infants and decided that theymust go to :Limbo" as place of natural happiness but without God.
Only, a few years ago then Pope Benedict admitted that there is no such place.
What happens to the kid's now?
Post #15
[Replying to post 11 by William]
That's an interesting way to say it, considering what my premise is. I was making a point that this "internal brokenness" can be exacerbated with power and wealth, but you say that "poor people can act just as wickedly as rich people". I broadly agree with that. I agree that this "internal brokenness" is not limited to the rich. So then I put it back on you: how do you account for the fact that so many people behave so badly?jergarmar: One evidence is the ubiquity of human depravity. That is, across time and across the globe, there is evidence of atrocities committed by people, not in spite of having things like power and money, but because of having these things.
William: No - it is definitely 'in spite of'. The evidence is in that poor people can display acts of cruelty just as the rich can.
Not having the things that money can buy doesn't mean one will not act atrociously.
Okay, I'm genuinely curious about this point. You didn't say "probably" but "certainly". How do you know you would avoid the corrupting influences of power and money, if given large amounts of both?jergarmar: Put another way, if you had ultimate power and wealth, do you think you would be able to avoid the corrupting influences of them?
William: Certainly.
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William
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Post #17
@
William: I do not credit any thing as being fact simply because I am told it is fact.
ttruscott: It is a blasphemy to even think that HE might create HIS Bride as pestulant and corrupt in sin by making her human in Adam!
William: But isn't that essentially your position? That eternal beings had a prior experience before being placed into this area of the physical universe,and into the human form?
And do you not tell us that your theology believes that these Eternal Beings chose to be evil before this universe was created to deal with them?
Do you not also claim that this "Bride of Christ" is a repentant sinner?
I mean, what else is the reader to get from what you write here;
ttruscott: We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
William: Apparently your idea of GOD prefers to have saved sinners as his 'Bride" rather than any who have not experienced impurity and adultery.
John: This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
ttruscott: Surely this means that HE cannot do or create evil in any way by any method any more than a match can be struck and darkness come out and fill a room! If you think this verse means something else I'd love to hear what that is but please, no more theology proving that creating us as men in Adam is NOT creating us to be sinners and evil.
William: To claim that ones idea of GOD cannot do something, automatically means that he cannot actually be omniscient.
The darkness refers to ignorance. If you believe that Jesus knew of no evil, you would have to explain why he resisted temptation.
John is but one contributor to the story. It is written that ALL things were created in Jesus. It is written that The Father gave Jesus that power.
If you want to argue that good and evil are not 'things'...you will have to explain to the reader why you believe that is the case.
Mark: Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand."
ttruscott: Is not the holy side of this syllogism IF GOD drives our Satan's evil, how can HE create the evil HE hates? IF GOD hates wickedness: and has no wickedness in HIM
William: You seem to be conflating creating the opportunity for good and evil with creating good and evil.
Jesus clearly was making that point to those who chose to judge, will be judged accordingly, and to be careful how one labels things 'good' or 'evil' because conflating the two cannot drive away one from the other.
David: The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him. For You are not a God who delights in wickedness; no evil can dwell with You.
ttruscott: how can we say that HE created wicked people by having them born as men in Adam without being a house divided? Both things cannot be true at the same time because they are opposites. IF HE cannot dwell with the wicked, how can HE have created them / us, especially HIS Bride, as evil in Adam?
William: Are you then declaring that your own theology which expressly believes that evil Eternal Beings from Sheol, did not have Jesus 'dwelling with them'?
Obviously Jesus created Sheol, and so if he placed Eternal Beings in that place, this gave them the opportunity to practice evil.
It appears that they were created ignorant. It may even be that Jesus was not aware that placing Eternal Beings in the mansion of Sheol, would result in this.
But this would mean that there was ignorance in Jesus, and therefore he did not appreciate that doing so would create this error...and therefore there was 'darkness' in him.
Which is it? Jesus knew exactly what he was doing and did it, or Jesus did not know what the results would be and this created a curiosity in him to find out what would happen?
Matthew: A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
ttruscott: Christ is good so cannot create evil people by making them human in Adam's sin, especially those HE chose before the foundation of the world to be HIS Bride!!! What foolishness is this??
William: Unless it was purely accidental. The Fathers House has many mansions, and Jesus used one of these to create The Metaphysical Universe and - after that, another one to create the Physical Universe.
Creating these universes wasn't 'right or wrong'. Abandoning them as failures, isn't an option I would expect Jesus to do.
Rather, any unforeseen ripple effects would be dealt with as they arise.
Thus, we have the story of Jesus becoming a human and fixing those problems through the instrument of his human life.
James: Can both fresh water and bitter water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree grow olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.…
ttruscott: Though this is about words, how much more is it about the creation of people who are more important than words?
William: "Words" are what we are informed Jesus used to create The Physical Universe.
Obviously Jesus was informing his Shepherds-in-training that they should not be confused about Jewish teachings about GOD which were stuck in another paradigm, because Jesus must leave the mansions of The Metaphysical and Physical Universes and converse with The Father about problems which arise in those mansions.
Jesus then takes that information the Father gives him, and injects it into the minds of the Eternal Entities who are most helping him with his project.
These are his "Bride" and what he will give as a gift to his Bride, is a mansion of their own to create with...outside of the Mansions of the Metaphysical and the Physical Universes.
The Bride thus become equal with Her husband AND has the advantage of having learned some valuable lessons in which to model their own creations after. Win/Win.
It isn't really about 'Adam' other than Jesus was Adam, and for that matter, is every Eternal Entity involved in these two mansions who see in him, a reflection of themselves.
Thus we are all indelibly "Jesus" which is what Jesus was attempting to convey to us, through his many various and intelligent mediums/devices.
William: I do not credit any thing as being fact simply because I am told it is fact.
ttruscott: It is a blasphemy to even think that HE might create HIS Bride as pestulant and corrupt in sin by making her human in Adam!
William: But isn't that essentially your position? That eternal beings had a prior experience before being placed into this area of the physical universe,and into the human form?
And do you not tell us that your theology believes that these Eternal Beings chose to be evil before this universe was created to deal with them?
Do you not also claim that this "Bride of Christ" is a repentant sinner?
I mean, what else is the reader to get from what you write here;
ttruscott: We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
William: Apparently your idea of GOD prefers to have saved sinners as his 'Bride" rather than any who have not experienced impurity and adultery.
John: This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
ttruscott: Surely this means that HE cannot do or create evil in any way by any method any more than a match can be struck and darkness come out and fill a room! If you think this verse means something else I'd love to hear what that is but please, no more theology proving that creating us as men in Adam is NOT creating us to be sinners and evil.
William: To claim that ones idea of GOD cannot do something, automatically means that he cannot actually be omniscient.
The darkness refers to ignorance. If you believe that Jesus knew of no evil, you would have to explain why he resisted temptation.
John is but one contributor to the story. It is written that ALL things were created in Jesus. It is written that The Father gave Jesus that power.
If you want to argue that good and evil are not 'things'...you will have to explain to the reader why you believe that is the case.
Mark: Jesus called them over to him and began to speak to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand."
ttruscott: Is not the holy side of this syllogism IF GOD drives our Satan's evil, how can HE create the evil HE hates? IF GOD hates wickedness: and has no wickedness in HIM
William: You seem to be conflating creating the opportunity for good and evil with creating good and evil.
Jesus clearly was making that point to those who chose to judge, will be judged accordingly, and to be careful how one labels things 'good' or 'evil' because conflating the two cannot drive away one from the other.
David: The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him. For You are not a God who delights in wickedness; no evil can dwell with You.
ttruscott: how can we say that HE created wicked people by having them born as men in Adam without being a house divided? Both things cannot be true at the same time because they are opposites. IF HE cannot dwell with the wicked, how can HE have created them / us, especially HIS Bride, as evil in Adam?
William: Are you then declaring that your own theology which expressly believes that evil Eternal Beings from Sheol, did not have Jesus 'dwelling with them'?
Obviously Jesus created Sheol, and so if he placed Eternal Beings in that place, this gave them the opportunity to practice evil.
It appears that they were created ignorant. It may even be that Jesus was not aware that placing Eternal Beings in the mansion of Sheol, would result in this.
But this would mean that there was ignorance in Jesus, and therefore he did not appreciate that doing so would create this error...and therefore there was 'darkness' in him.
Which is it? Jesus knew exactly what he was doing and did it, or Jesus did not know what the results would be and this created a curiosity in him to find out what would happen?
Matthew: A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
ttruscott: Christ is good so cannot create evil people by making them human in Adam's sin, especially those HE chose before the foundation of the world to be HIS Bride!!! What foolishness is this??
William: Unless it was purely accidental. The Fathers House has many mansions, and Jesus used one of these to create The Metaphysical Universe and - after that, another one to create the Physical Universe.
Creating these universes wasn't 'right or wrong'. Abandoning them as failures, isn't an option I would expect Jesus to do.
Rather, any unforeseen ripple effects would be dealt with as they arise.
Thus, we have the story of Jesus becoming a human and fixing those problems through the instrument of his human life.
James: Can both fresh water and bitter water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree grow olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.…
ttruscott: Though this is about words, how much more is it about the creation of people who are more important than words?
William: "Words" are what we are informed Jesus used to create The Physical Universe.
Obviously Jesus was informing his Shepherds-in-training that they should not be confused about Jewish teachings about GOD which were stuck in another paradigm, because Jesus must leave the mansions of The Metaphysical and Physical Universes and converse with The Father about problems which arise in those mansions.
Jesus then takes that information the Father gives him, and injects it into the minds of the Eternal Entities who are most helping him with his project.
These are his "Bride" and what he will give as a gift to his Bride, is a mansion of their own to create with...outside of the Mansions of the Metaphysical and the Physical Universes.
The Bride thus become equal with Her husband AND has the advantage of having learned some valuable lessons in which to model their own creations after. Win/Win.
It isn't really about 'Adam' other than Jesus was Adam, and for that matter, is every Eternal Entity involved in these two mansions who see in him, a reflection of themselves.
Thus we are all indelibly "Jesus" which is what Jesus was attempting to convey to us, through his many various and intelligent mediums/devices.
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William
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Post #18
@
jergarmar: One evidence is the ubiquity of human depravity. That is, across time and across the globe, there is evidence of atrocities committed by people, not in spite of having things like power and money, but because of having these things.
William: No - it is definitely 'in spite of'. The evidence is in that poor people can display acts of cruelty just as the rich can.
Not having the things that money can buy doesn't mean one will not act atrociously.
jergarmar: That's an interesting way to say it, considering what my premise is. I was making a point that this "internal brokenness" can be exacerbated with power and wealth, but you say that "poor people can act just as wickedly as rich people". I broadly agree with that. I agree that this "internal brokenness" is not limited to the rich. So then I put it back on you: how do you account for the fact that so many people behave so badly?
William: They know not what they do.
In broader terms, they are unforgiving about the predicament they are in and do not understand that they have been forgiven, so they behave as if they were not.
It is essentially a 'mirror/mirror' phenomena.
jergarmar:Put another way, if you had ultimate power and wealth, do you think you would be able to avoid the corrupting influences of them?
William: Certainly.
jergarmar: Okay, I'm genuinely curious about this point. You didn't say "probably" but "certainly". How do you know you would avoid the corrupting influences of power and money, if given large amounts of both?
William: I know for a number of reasons. Number 1 would be that I know my self.
Other reasons included but are not limited to;
Money and ultimate power in themselves are not evil. How these are used is what determines evil.
I am not evil, therefore IF I had these things I would use them for the purpose of good.
I would be able to convince others to join with me in supporting the plan of building a society which is not based on disparity, but upon parity.
jergarmar: One evidence is the ubiquity of human depravity. That is, across time and across the globe, there is evidence of atrocities committed by people, not in spite of having things like power and money, but because of having these things.
William: No - it is definitely 'in spite of'. The evidence is in that poor people can display acts of cruelty just as the rich can.
Not having the things that money can buy doesn't mean one will not act atrociously.
jergarmar: That's an interesting way to say it, considering what my premise is. I was making a point that this "internal brokenness" can be exacerbated with power and wealth, but you say that "poor people can act just as wickedly as rich people". I broadly agree with that. I agree that this "internal brokenness" is not limited to the rich. So then I put it back on you: how do you account for the fact that so many people behave so badly?
William: They know not what they do.
In broader terms, they are unforgiving about the predicament they are in and do not understand that they have been forgiven, so they behave as if they were not.
It is essentially a 'mirror/mirror' phenomena.
jergarmar:Put another way, if you had ultimate power and wealth, do you think you would be able to avoid the corrupting influences of them?
William: Certainly.
jergarmar: Okay, I'm genuinely curious about this point. You didn't say "probably" but "certainly". How do you know you would avoid the corrupting influences of power and money, if given large amounts of both?
William: I know for a number of reasons. Number 1 would be that I know my self.
Other reasons included but are not limited to;
Money and ultimate power in themselves are not evil. How these are used is what determines evil.
I am not evil, therefore IF I had these things I would use them for the purpose of good.
I would be able to convince others to join with me in supporting the plan of building a society which is not based on disparity, but upon parity.
Post #19
[Replying to post 18 by William]
Basically what you're saying is, "If I was the one in charge, then everything would be better." If that's the case, would you want restrictions on your power? Or would you want free reign to exact as much good as possible?
The corollary would be this: why does it seem to be difficult to find good leaders? Do you think it's difficult to find people who would not abuse their power?
Basically what you're saying is, "If I was the one in charge, then everything would be better." If that's the case, would you want restrictions on your power? Or would you want free reign to exact as much good as possible?
The corollary would be this: why does it seem to be difficult to find good leaders? Do you think it's difficult to find people who would not abuse their power?
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ttruscott
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Post #20
Wow - you can't see a difference? Yikes. Inherited sin means we were CREATED that way, evil because HE wanted us to be evil so HE put us into Adam's sin, no choice, no reason. PCE, though it agrees that we are sinners at conception have our sinfulness because of our own free will decison to rebel against HIS deity or HIS plan for us pre-earth. Theologically that is a huge difference.William wrote:ttruscott: It is a blasphemy to even think that HE might create HIS Bride as pestulant and corrupt in sin by making her human in Adam!
William: But isn't that essentially your position? That eternal beings had a prior experience before being placed into this area of the physical universe,and into the human form?
PS:
I'd like to encourage you to use the quote feature...the colors differentiate thoughts very well but they are useless to track back and find a previous post which is very useful sometimes.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
