Questions for non-Trinitarians

[Matthew S Islam]

Hello everyone.

Disclaimer: I am not a Trinitarian or even a Christian for that matter, but I am rather intriguied by the complexities of your religious tradition.

I am really curious to see how non-Trinitarians make sense of these issues, which I cannot help but find problematic:

The Divinity of Christ and the Doctrine of the Trinity was established as the orthodox interpretation and was enforced by the Roman authorities. This resulted in the Trinity's theological supremecy throughout Christian history and up until today.

1) If Christianity is truly from God, then why did God allow a polytheistic doctrine to contaminate the mainstream tradition? What exactly is the wisdom behind the majority of Christians being polytheists--if the religion is ultimately Divine and true?

2) If your theology is in agreement with ultimate truth and reality, then why didn't God make non-Trinitarianism the dominant trend? Isn't God expected to guide and facillitate the true religion?

3) If the Bible as we currently have it is consistent with the Will of God, then how do you justify the wisdom behind how Jesus was portrayed in the New Testament? To be more clear: Why didn't God make the matter so clear and descisive, that folks wouldn't even think of debating it? If God has Divine Knowledge and is also Merciful, then why didn't he continue the Old Testaments trend of clear speech and consistent theology? Don't you believe that God is not the author of confusion?

4) If you're willing to accept that God did not have to ensure the dominance of the correct theology over polytheism, then how are you so confident with Pauline Christianity? What if Paul is how he appears to be--an open heretic? Why 'trust' the Will of God here, when you confidently oppose the 'Will of God' at Niceae and the majority of Christian history?

Thank you!

[marco]

The passage you quote was added by Matthew to the Gospel of Mark. There is nothing that says Jesus was going to found a church. In fact, no such word a “Church� existed at that time.

Recall, Jesus said in a number of scriptures that he would return during the lifetime of those then alive. He didn’t of course. So why would there be a "church"?

I can go along with this without the slightest problem. My credence of Matthew is as strong or weak as my reliance on Mark or Luke or John. If our axiom is that these worthy gentlemen were divinely guided, then words issued by them give authority and justification. That would be the Church view.

If we start saying Matthew is partly right, John seldom right and Revelation rubbish then we overturn Christianity. I don't have a problem with that either. We have plenty of reason to question Matthew. He authored:


" and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. " Matthew 27: 52

[Zog Has-fallen]

1) If Christianity is truly from God, then why did God allow a polytheistic doctrine to contaminate the mainstream tradition? What exactly is the wisdom behind the majority of Christians being polytheists--if the religion is ultimately Divine and true?

I agree that Trinitarianism is polytheism. Why did God allow the true Christian faith to become polluted? Indisputably, if God wanted to overwhelm humanity with an irrefutable expression of His will, then God could easily rearrange the stars to spell out exactly what He wants humans to know. Since we don't see anything like that, then obviously God takes pleasure in His true followers making a diligent search for truth until they find it.

[Tcg]

Indisputably, if God wanted to overwhelm humanity with an irrefutable expression of His will, then God could easily rearrange the stars to spell out exactly what He wants humans to know.

There is much to be disputed with this claim:

What language would god decide to favor? I'm guessing it'd be yours.

From what hemisphere would it be visible? Once again, I'm guessing you'd expect it to be yours.

Since we don't see anything like that, then obviously God takes pleasure in His true followers making a diligent search for truth until they find it.

I can't tell if you are describing your god as some kind of cosmic Easter bunny or as some dude with a string expecting it's pet cat to chase the string no matter how many times it moves it when the cat gets close.

Of course once again, you view yourself as one of the "true followers". One who searches endlessly for the hidden eggs or one who chases the uncatchable string.

In any case, you've described a game playing god and the winners as ones who are foolish enough to play it's game. Not much of a god in my opinion. Given you think it is on your side, you'll undoubtedly disagree.

[marco]

..... if God wanted to overwhelm humanity with an irrefutable expression of His will, then God could easily rearrange the stars to spell out exactly what He wants humans to know. Since we don't see anything like that, then obviously God takes pleasure in His true followers making a diligent search for truth until they find it.

Some people DO see things like that; finding God where God be not. Trinitarians, to be fair, do not maintain three gods but one. That's monotheism, albeit by the back door.


If one regards God's silence as approval of the status quo then one must accept God supervises present-day atrocities with the pleasure you assert. Why destroy Sodom yesterday and allow atrocities tomorrow?

[marco]

In any case, you've described a game playing god and the winners as ones who are foolish enough to play its game. Not much of a god in my opinion.

It was ever so with the gods we design. Jeremiah gloomily observes:


New International Version
"Where then are the gods you made for yourselves? Let them come if they can save you when you are in trouble! " Jeremiah 2: 28

They didn't come then; they don't come now.

[Zog Has-fallen]

Trinitarians, to be fair, do not maintain three gods but one.

When I was a child, I realized that there could only be one all-knowing God. My reasoning was as follows: If two Gods were all-powerful and all-knowing, then both Gods would know what each other would be thinking so perfectly and completely that Their minds would be intertwined with each other's deepest thoughts and emotions. If so, then They would be essentially just one mind in two different bodies.

[Zog Has-fallen]

In any case, you've described a game playing god and the winners as ones who are foolish enough to play it's game.

Then a clarification is in order. I view God as the greatest being that could exist without contradiction with infinite divine attributes.

[Tcg]

In any case, you've described a game playing god and the winners as ones who are foolish enough to play it's game.

Then a clarification is in order. I view God as the greatest being that could exist without contradiction with infinite divine attributes.

Unless you are retracting your previous claims, it remains a game playing God. Simply providing your definition of God doesn't change it's character which is determined by the actions you described earlier.

[Zog Has-fallen]

Unless you are retracting your previous claims, it remains a game playing God.

God's word says:

Proverbs 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal things,
but the glory of kings is to search things out.

Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

If you want to characterize these two verses as God's confession that He is on record encouraging humans to get involved in playing the very enjoyable game of hide and seek, then I have no objections.

[Zog Has-fallen]

In any case, you've described a game playing god and the winners as ones who are foolish enough to play it's game. Not much of a god in my opinion.

I'm thrilled by God and love to play hide and seek with Him. I believe that I'm being wise in doing so. If you think you're making better use of your time, then I'd love to hear what you're doing.