Worship of Mary not Biblical

[dragonthief]

In the Bible, God makes it clear that we are to worship no other God. Christ said that the only way to salvation was through him. The Bible also makes it clear that the only way to communicate to God is by prayer through Jesus Christ. So, if this is the case, why do Catholics pray to Mary. She did not die for our sins. She did not suffer crucifixion and she certainly did not raise from the dead, nor has she ascended into Heaven. She is, like the rest of the believers, asleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection. She is not seated in Heaven (only Christ and the Angels are in Heaven).

I walked into a Catholic Church recently to be confronted with a huge portrait of the glorified Mary above the pulpit and a small crucifix of Christ off to one side. The combined image places Christ still on the Cross, whilst Mary is a glorified being complete with a halo. This image does not fit with the Bible and it is a complete and utter false representation of who and why we worship.

I grew up a Catholic and we were taught from an early age to pray to Mary. We were hardly ever taught to pray to God or Jesus. I am no longer a Catholic. My religious beliefs are personal and I follow, as much as I am able to, the dictates of the Bible, as handed down by the apostles and Christ and not some established false religion.

Here's my challenge to Catholics, prove, from the Bible, that God commanded us to pray to anyone other than God and his glorified son Jesus.

[jedicri]

Obviously, you don't understand Catholicism. There is the concept of 'Intersession'. They don't worship Mary or the Saints, they are requesting that the saint or Mary are an intermediary to God.

SO, it is a 'straw man' for you to claim they are 'worshiping' Mary.

Christ said there is only one intermediary through which we can intercede and that is Christ. Mary and the Saints are not in Heaven. They are in the grave, awaiting the resurrection, as are all people who have ever lived.

The following taken from John Salza's site:

Gen. 5:24, Heb. 11:5 - Enoch was bodily assumed into heaven without dying. Would God do any less for Mary the Ark of the New Covenant?

2 Kings 2:11-12; 1 Mac 2:58 - Elijah was assumed into heaven in fiery chariot. Jesus would not do any less for His Blessed Mother.

Psalm 132:8 - Arise, O Lord, and go to thy resting place, thou and the Ark (Mary) of thy might. Both Jesus and Mary were taken up to their eternal resting place in heaven.

2 Cor. 12:2 - Paul speaks of a man in Christ who was caught up to the third heaven. Mary was also brought up into heaven by God.

Matt. 27:52-53 - when Jesus died and rose, the bodies of the saints were raised. Nothing in Scripture precludes Mary's assumption into heaven.

1 Thess. 4:17 - we shall be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we shall always be with the Lord.

Rev. 12:1 - we see Mary, the "woman," clothed with the sun. While in Rev. 6:9 we only see the souls of the martyrs in heaven, in Rev. 12:1 we see Mary, both body and soul.

2 Thess. 2:15 - Paul instructs us to hold fast to oral (not just written) tradition. Apostolic tradition says Mary was assumed into heaven. While claiming the bones of the saints was a common practice during these times (and would have been especially important to obtain Mary's bones as she was the Mother of God), Mary's bones were never claimed. This is because they were not available. Mary was taken up body and soul into heaven.

And I beg to differ about worshiping. "Hail Mary, full of grace..." You don't "hail" someone unless they are a Queen a king or a God. To suggests she is "full of grace" is to place her on an equal footing with Christ.

These are the words spoken by God and delivered to us by the angel Gabriel (who is a messenger of God): "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee." (Lk 1: 28).

Calling her the Mother of God suggests she is greater than Christ.

That is your opinion. Catholicism does not teach that she is greater than God, but it does teach that she is truly the Mother of God because she bore Jesus in her womb for 9 months and gave birth to Him.

Luke 1:28 - also, the phrase "full of grace" is translated from the Greek word "kecharitomene." This is a unique title given to Mary, and suggests a perfection of grace from a past event. Mary is not just "highly favored." She has been perfected in grace by God. "Full of grace" is only used to describe one other person - Jesus Christ in John 1:14.

Luke 1:43 - Elizabeth's use of "Mother of my Lord" (in Hebrew, Elizabeth used "Adonai" which means Lord God) is the equivalent of "Holy Mary, Mother of God". The formula is simple: Jesus is a divine person, and this person is God. Mary is Jesus' Mother, so Mary is the mother of God (Mary is not just the Mother of Jesus' human nature - mothers are mothers of persons, not natures).

[Sarek]

I have never worshiped Mary, but i ask her to pray for me as often as i can. I also ask prophets and saints to pray for me as well, but i have never worshiped any of them.

They are like parents brothers and sisters that you ask to help you because they are adults and you are a child and need supervision.

What it really boils down to is that i believe these so called individuals live with God and so i ask them to ask God for me to make the Bond between God and myself deeper and deeper so that i may become like one of them.

[Man_With_A_Plan]

All apostolic Christians--Catholics, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian Church of the East--have bishops and priests, sacraments, and they all venerate saints. Even in the Book of the Apocalypse, you'll find intercession of saints.

Nobody "worships Mary." That's like saying you worship your friend because you ask them to pray for you.

I won't get into the logical fallacies of "Sola Scriptura," but let me ask you this, since you think Christianity is supposed to be "based on the Bible":

In Luke's Gospel, Mary is told that "all generations will call you blessed." Why don't Protestants do this? After all, it's "in the Bible."

When it comes to the Bible, the main difference between Protestants and apostolic (traditional) Christianity is this:

Protestants believe that "Christianity is based on the Bible," and traditional Christianity teaches that the Bible is based on Christianity--because, when you think about it, Christianity existed before the New Testament was written!

[tam]

Protestants believe that "Christianity is based on the Bible," and traditional Christianity teaches that the Bible is based on Christianity--because, when you think about it, Christianity existed before the New Testament was written!

And Christ existed before them both.


While some say 'follow the bible', and some say, 'follow (this or that) church', Christ says, "Follow me."



Peace,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[puddleglum]

[Replying to post 13 by Man_With_A_Plan]

In Luke's Gospel, Mary is told that "all generations will call you blessed." Why don't Protestants do this? After all, it's "in the Bible."

We do consider her blessed. We reject the false beliefs about such as that she was without sin or that she remained a virgin for life.

By the way, do you realize that it is impossible for a married woman to remain and virgin and also be sinless?

For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
(1 Corinthians 7:4-5 ESV)

A married woman who remains a virgin and refuses to engage in sex with her husband is by that act committing sin.

[Ancient of Years]

[Replying to post 13 by Man_With_A_Plan]

In Luke's Gospel, Mary is told that "all generations will call you blessed." Why don't Protestants do this? After all, it's "in the Bible."

We do consider her blessed. We reject the false beliefs about such as that she was without sin or that she remained a virgin for life.

By the way, do you realize that it is impossible for a married woman to remain and virgin and also be sinless?

For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
(1 Corinthians 7:4-5 ESV)

A married woman who remains a virgin and refuses to engage in sex with her husband is by that act committing sin.

As usual Catholics have a ready answer. Joseph was too old for that sort of thing. And the 'brothers and sisters' of Jesus were Joseph's children by a previous marriage. This and the perpetual virginity of Mary are mentioned in the non-canonical Infancy Gospel of James. While not considered inerrant it is supposed to preserve certain early traditions.

[4insight]

Obviously, you don't understand Catholicism. There is the concept of 'Intersession'. They don't worship Mary or the Saints, they are requesting that the saint or Mary are an intermediary to God.

SO, it is a 'straw man' for you to claim they are 'worshiping' Mary.

Christ said there is only one intermediary through which we can intercede and that is Christ. Mary and the Saints are not in Heaven. They are in the grave, awaiting the resurrection, as are all people who have ever lived. And I beg to differ about worshiping. "Hail Mary, full of grace..." You don't "hail" someone unless they are a Queen a king or a God. To suggests she is "full of grace" is to place her on an equal footing with Christ. Calling her the Mother of God suggests she is greater than Christ.

Oh yes, believe me, everything about Catholicism and their obsession with Mary indicates they see her as much more than human, much more than a saint.

Mary represent the Holy mother, the one that is in Heaven. God did said to let's create mankind in our own likeness, and remember that He is invisible. And so, whom is He referring to, to whom He is referring this to? How everything operates in heaven, that God had created us in that very same way how its operates, family structure, but something had went wrong causing everything in the natural to shifted from the rhythm of how things operates in heaven. And so now since God is merciful, then the ones that are created in His image should be as well merciful as He is. And so Jesus is showing us the way that we are suppose to be, the way that it were in our beginning.

Matthew 6:10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Psalm 14:7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When the Lord restores his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

Isaiah 1:26 I will restore your leaders as in days of old, your rulers as at the beginning. Afterward you will be called the City of Righteousness, the Faithful City.�


Acts 1:6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?�

Acts 3:21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Matthew 19:8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.

[paarsurrey1]

In the Bible, God makes it clear that we are to worship no other God. Christ said that the only way to salvation was through him. The Bible also makes it clear that the only way to communicate to God is by prayer through Jesus Christ. So, if this is the case, why do Catholics pray to Mary. She did not die for our sins. She did not suffer crucifixion and she certainly did not raise from the dead, nor has she ascended into Heaven. She is, like the rest of the believers, asleep in the grave awaiting the resurrection. She is not seated in Heaven (only Christ and the Angels are in Heaven).

I walked into a Catholic Church recently to be confronted with a huge portrait of the glorified Mary above the pulpit and a small crucifix of Christ off to one side. The combined image places Christ still on the Cross, whilst Mary is a glorified being complete with a halo. This image does not fit with the Bible and it is a complete and utter false representation of who and why we worship.

I grew up a Catholic and we were taught from an early age to pray to Mary. We were hardly ever taught to pray to God or Jesus. I am no longer a Catholic. My religious beliefs are personal and I follow, as much as I am able to, the dictates of the Bible, as handed down by the apostles and Christ and not some established false religion.

Here's my challenge to Catholics, prove, from the Bible, that God commanded us to pray to anyone other than God and his glorified son Jesus.

In the Bible, God makes it clear that we are to worship no other God.

I am not a Catholic. I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. We Muslims believe and love Jesus and Mary and that they were truthful persons as we believe in and love Moses and his mother.
The followers of Jesus must, as is evident, follow Jesus' teachings and his acts/deeds and not the teachings of Pauline-Christianity/Paul's teachings and his deeds/acts.
The point a very big point is whether Jesus gave the teaching to worship Mary and or whether Jesus himself worship Mary if he did not do anything like that why should his followers worship her?!

Regards

[marco]

I am not a Catholic. I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. We Muslims believe and love Jesus and Mary and that they were truthful persons as we believe in and love Moses and his mother.
The followers of Jesus must, as is evident, follow Jesus' teachings and his acts/deeds and not the teachings of Pauline-Christianity/Paul's teachings and his deeds/acts.
The point a very big point is whether Jesus gave the teaching to worship Mary and or whether Jesus himself worship Mary if he did not do anything like that why should his followers worship her?!

Regards

My kindest regards to you, paarsurrey; I am pleased to hear you are an Ahmadi.

The Roman Catholic position on Mary is that she is given HONOUR (technically called hyperdulia) because she was favoured by God. She is NOT worshipped, which would be blasphemous. Only God is worshipped.

Jesus gave no instruction about worshipping anyone - including himself - other than the Father.

Best wishes.

[Olla]

[Replying to post 12 by Sarek]

1 Thessalonians 1:9
For they themselves keep reporting about our first contact with you and how you turned to God from your idols to slave for a living and true God

The Encyclopædia Britannica says that “during the first three centuries of the Christian Church, . . . there was no Christian art, and the church generally resisted it with all its might. Clement of Alexandria, for example, criticized religious (pagan) art in that it encouraged people to worship that which is created rather than the Creator.�

1 Corintians 10:14 "Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry"

Exodus 20:3-6
3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me, 6 and showing lovingkindness unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
American Standard Version
This is the truth from the Holy Scripture