Belief structure or Atheism

[Gunnarr]

When a child is born are they born with a belief structure in them or are the born Atheist.

I believe that a child has a belief structure in them, my reasoning is simple, where did it start otherwise. I believe it started because it is within us already, when man could speak and voice his thoughts religion was formed, not as we know it, but the spark and basis was there.

Interested in others differing opinion as well as those in agreement.

[Goat]

I think your story highlights the influence family, modernity and media can have on a young impressionable adult, it does not support your theory of being born an Atheist.

Communitys thousands of years ago, having no outside influences, in every continent in the world developed a belief structure in the gods. From remote regions in South America to the Aboriginal tribes in Australia, they believed in gods.

You counter that with your 21 yr old niece who you admit you had regular contact with, and yet you claim no influence, on balance your standpoint is a non starter.

Oh, I am sure her parents had an influence..

On the other hand the Pirah people have no God concept.. so, this nullifies your idea.

[Gunnarr]

Oh, I am sure her parents had an influence..

On the other hand the Pirah people have no God concept.. so, this nullifies your idea.

Thank you for the link, I was not aware of this tribe, in the link I read this,

"The Pirahã have no concept of a supreme spirit or god[11] and they lost interest in Jesus when they discovered that Everett had never seen him. They require evidence for every claim made. They aren't interested in things if they don't know the history behind them, if they haven't seen it done.[5] However, they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment. These spirits can be jaguars, trees, or other visible, tangible things including people"

So this guy who is a Christian with a one God approach lost his debate with these people because the believe in, A spirit that walks as a man. and they believe in Ancestor veneration, and they believe in spirits in animals and objects.

The god tribal thesis does not have to fit only a Christian template for validity, only a former Christian would think like that.

The heathen culture has Vaettir and draugr and gods that have walked among us, and more importantly in recorded Ancestral veneration quite similar to the tribe in the link, similar but different by culture and location.

[JohnPaul]

When a child is born are they born with a belief structure in them or are the born Atheist.

I believe that a child has a belief structure in them, my reasoning is simple, where did it start otherwise. I believe it started because it is within us already, when man could speak and voice his thoughts religion was formed, not as we know it, but the spark and basis was there.

Interested in others differing opinion as well as those in agreement.

A baby is born with a "belief structure" in its brain, but not in gods as such. A baby is created by its parents, who are totally superior to the baby and the baby is totally dependent on them for all its needs. Later, while still very young, the baby learns "correct" behavior and obedience through reward and punishment. To the baby, the parents have absolute power, and, for all practical purposes, are Gods to the baby.

When the baby grows up and loses its parents, that structure in the brain still exists, the dependence on some "superior being." The psychological creation of imaginary gods to replace the lost parents fulfills a built-in psychological need.

This is universal for all human babies, so it is not surprising that all, or most, people develop a concept of god and a belief system that fulfills their psychological need for a superior being to create them, protect them, direct them, and, hopefully, care for them.

John

[Gunnarr]

What a sound point you make John probably the closet thing to being valid, but all this mumbo jumbo is just a distraction from the reality, that I have already stated ancestor veneration is a concept of a belief structure.

What I need to add again is that there was a almost universal belief structure in objects and natural phenomenon, across tribes and continents, the amount of points can not simplistically be defeated by modern societys physcological profiling of our ancestors belief system at creation as we are unaware of there approach, what is certain is the belief structure itself.

[Crazee]

When a child is born are they born with a belief structure in them or are the born Atheist.

I believe that a child has a belief structure in them, my reasoning is simple, where did it start otherwise. I believe it started because it is within us already, when man could speak and voice his thoughts religion was formed, not as we know it, but the spark and basis was there.

Interested in others differing opinion as well as those in agreement.

You might want to rephrase this since it is commonly forgotten that atheism is a system of beliefs as much as classical 'religions' are. Atheism, as I understand it, is a belief that physical/scientific/observational evidence is necessary as proof for something to exist.

What I think you mean, and sort of say in another post is that you want to know if kids are born with a belief in a higher being, but what do you define as a higher being? As someone else pointed out, parents are likely considered a 'higher being', at least at first, so where can they (children) draw the distinction between that and a God of sorts?

[Artie]

You might want to rephrase this since it is commonly forgotten that atheism is a system of beliefs as much as classical 'religions' are. Atheism, as I understand it, is a belief that physical/scientific/observational evidence is necessary as proof for something to exist.

What I think you mean, and sort of say in another post is that you want to know if kids are born with a belief in a higher being, but what do you define as a higher being? As someone else pointed out, parents are likely considered a 'higher being', at least at first, so where can they (children) draw the distinction between that and a God of sorts?

Atheism has nothing to do with belief systems. It's simply a lack of belief that deities exist. Atheist shouldn't even exist as a word. Is a person who doesn't believe in Santa Claus an asantaist and is not believing in Santa a belief system?

[Crazee]

Atheism has nothing to do with belief systems. It's simply a lack of belief that deities exist.

It is a belief in no deities, which is a belief. So I guess it is not entirely accurate to call atheism a belief system, but it is a fundamental factor in anyone whose belief system it is a part of, you follow me? My point is that, in respect to religion/belief systems, it isn't any different in my mind for someone to tell me they are a Christian. Christianity implies a belief system just as atheism does. In both situations, I won't know the details of the beliefs because there is still so much room for interpretation by the person I'm talking to as to what sort of Christian or Atheist they may be. They (Christianity and Atheism) are both focal points for the system of beliefs that person follows, and I can have a general idea what s/he will think in relation to god, an Afterlife, science, etc...

Atheist shouldn't even exist as a word.

Why do you say that?

Is a person who doesn't believe in Santa Claus an asantaist and is not believing in Santa a belief system?

Well, not believing in Santa isn't necessarily a belief system, but it is a belief. That belief has implications such as not believing in elves, or flying reindeer. Basically, the same thing I said above about atheism applies here.

[Goat]

When a child is born are they born with a belief structure in them or are the born Atheist.

I believe that a child has a belief structure in them, my reasoning is simple, where did it start otherwise. I believe it started because it is within us already, when man could speak and voice his thoughts religion was formed, not as we know it, but the spark and basis was there.

Interested in others differing opinion as well as those in agreement.

You might want to rephrase this since it is commonly forgotten that atheism is a system of beliefs as much as classical 'religions' are. Atheism, as I understand it, is a belief that physical/scientific/observational evidence is necessary as proof for something to exist.

You are mixing up empiricism with atheism. Atheism is merely the ideal that 'Without God'. .. where weak atheism is 'I do not believe there is a god', and strong atheism says "I believe there is no God'. Now, many atheists are empiricists

[Artie]

Atheism has nothing to do with belief systems. It's simply a lack of belief that deities exist.

It is a belief in no deities, which is a belief. So I guess it is not entirely accurate to call atheism a belief system, but it is a fundamental factor in anyone whose belief system it is a part of, you follow me? My point is that, in respect to religion/belief systems, it isn't any different in my mind for someone to tell me they are a Christian. Christianity implies a belief system just as atheism does. In both situations, I won't know the details of the beliefs because there is still so much room for interpretation by the person I'm talking to as to what sort of Christian or Atheist they may be. They (Christianity and Atheism) are both focal points for the system of beliefs that person follows, and I can have a general idea what s/he will think in relation to god, an Afterlife, science, etc...

But atheism isn't a belief system. An atheist doesn't believe in the non-existence of deities, he simply lacks a belief in deities. A person who believes in deities is the active one. An atheist is passive. Of course there are militant atheists or strong atheists who actively disbelieves in deities, but then you have to put a word in front to describe what kind of atheists they are. An atheist doesn't follow any system of beliefs. An atheist doesn't have an atheist bible.

[Crazee]

You might want to rephrase this since it is commonly forgotten that atheism is a system of beliefs as much as classical 'religions' are. Atheism, as I understand it, is a belief that physical/scientific/observational evidence is necessary as proof for something to exist.

You are mixing up empiricism with atheism. Atheism is merely the ideal that 'Without God'. .. where weak atheism is 'I do not believe there is a god', and strong atheism says "I believe there is no God'. Now, many atheists are empiricists

I stand corrected. Yes, I guess I am mixing up empiricism with atheism, though atheism does strongly imply empiricism of some sort. What I said in my last post applies here as well though. A belief in atheism will imply a certain kind of belief system, in the same way that a belief in Christianity will imply a certain belief system. There are many different kinds of Christians, all mutually exclusive, same as there are different atheists, so in my mind I see little difference between atheism and religion. That's not the classical way of looking at it, and I know that atheists don't like to be thought of as religious, but it's how it seems to me.

Atheism has nothing to do with belief systems. It's simply a lack of belief that deities exist.

It is a belief in no deities, which is a belief. So I guess it is not entirely accurate to call atheism a belief system, but it is a fundamental factor in anyone whose belief system it is a part of, you follow me? My point is that, in respect to religion/belief systems, it isn't any different in my mind for someone to tell me they are a Christian. Christianity implies a belief system just as atheism does. In both situations, I won't know the details of the beliefs because there is still so much room for interpretation by the person I'm talking to as to what sort of Christian or Atheist they may be. They (Christianity and Atheism) are both focal points for the system of beliefs that person follows, and I can have a general idea what s/he will think in relation to god, an Afterlife, science, etc...

But atheism isn't a belief system. An atheist doesn't believe in the non-existence of deities, he simply lacks a belief in deities. A person who believes in deities is the active one. An atheist is passive. Of course there are militant atheists or strong atheists who actively disbelieves in deities, but then you have to put a word in front to describe what kind of atheists they are. An atheist doesn't follow any system of beliefs. An atheist doesn't have an atheist bible.

Yes, I've agreed that atheism isn't a belief system per se, but than neither is Christianity, because I can't know the entirety of what one thinks if that's all they tell me. Reread what I wrote to you above on that, I think I explained pretty well how I see it. I also rephrase my answer in responding to Goat.

An atheist doesn't believe in the non-existence of deities, he simply lacks a belief in deities. A person who believes in deities is the active one. An atheist is passive.

Okay, that first sentence I've quoted here, those two phrases are the same to me. Lacking a belief in deities, is the same as not believing in deities, which is the same as a belief in the non-existence of deities.

To the second and third sentence here: someone with an active belief, and someone with a passive belief, still both have beliefs. Because one is passive and the other is active doesn't make it any more or any less of a belief. I also think it is unfair to say atheists are passive while theists are not. Being passive may or may not be a good thing, but either way you can't say that a belief in deities means that that person is aggressive about it as well.

But back to the topic at hand, though I do love debating this...

Communitys thousands of years ago, having no outside influences, in every continent in the world developed a belief structure in the gods. From remote regions in South America to the Aboriginal tribes in Australia, they believed in gods.

To me this is strong evidence for there being an immaterial world that we can get in touch with intuitively, better than we can through conventional, logic based methods. I think we are more naturally perceptive to this non-physical aspect of reality when we are kids because our beliefs haven't been colored by so many other peoples' beliefs yet. Essentially, we are more able to just 'go with the flow'.

So in response to your opening question: I think babies are born with a belief in the spiritual, but not necessarily in God as many people think of it.