Edited to clarify:
After consultation with the moderating team and with the permission of the Administrator, I'm unlocking the thread. Let no one claim that his views have been censored or silenced. Let's see what you've got.
TheLibertarian wrote:cnorman18 wrote:Thanks for clarifying. Nice to know what we're dealing with here.
And it's different from someone who chooses to disaffiliate from, say, Christian Scientists, and to have nothing to do with them - how, exactly?
Well, for starters, I don’t see anyone claiming that Christian Scientists are “conscious agents of social decay,� or that Christian Scientism is “parasitic� or “odious… like a gene for retardation or cancer,� or that they “do not belong in Western culture�; and, of course, I don’t see a lot of calls for outright murder, which are then, as was characteristic of apologists for the Nazis in the 1930s, dismissed as
�hyperbolic.� That looks pretty different to me.
Now, if you have the stones to stand up and speak honestly about what you have here openly admitted that you believe, as opposed to backing away from it again, let’s nail some of these scurrilous and demonstrably, provably false claims down -- and perhaps get a peek at your sources and references while we’re at it.
Let’s start here. You said,
TheLibertarian wrote:
Not only do I not feel the need to distance myself from any of it, I could just as easily initial my name next to it as an endorsement of my own feelings.
This was said in reference to certain specific quotations, which we will examine individually and in detail -- just to make sure that you actually mean what you say. First, immediately following the above, you said:
TheLibertarian wrote:
I don't believe that all Jews are conscious agents of social decay, but enough of them have been, in enough of the right places to be effective, for me to question whether or not something deeper is going on. Certainly they have subverted the United States entirely; there is no possible denial of it.
Crystal-clear implication: That many, if not most, Jews are “conscious agents of social decay,� etc. This is, of course, the ancient calumny of the existence of the nefarious International Jewish Conspiracy. Do you actually believe that even a minority of Jews are engaged in a conscious, deliberate conspiracy to -- take your pick -- bring down Western culture, rule the world, reduce all Gentiles to a state of dependent slavery, and so on? Do you accept the
Protocols of the Elders of Zion as actual, authentic evidence of such a conspiracy? What is your evidence that such a conspiracy exists? You’ve said it; now let’s see you back it up.
Be sure to give your citations.
Then, we have this:
TheLibertarian wrote:
Whether on the Right or the Left, our entire thinking on foreign policy can be boiled down to two words: "Praise Israel". That's not the spontaneous result of a few leaders of European-descent deciding to be nice to Jews.
First, it would be nice to see you actually prove the first assertion -- in particular how it relates to American pressure, from Carter to Clinton to Obama, on Israel to accept a “two-state solution� in the Mideast, to stop the expansion of the “settlements,� and so on. Many pundits think that the U.S. controls Israeli policy more than the other way around. See this article in Frontline,
The Myth of the “Jewish Lobby.� America does not support Israel because of an evil conspiracy of venal Jews, but because America’s interests and Israel’s coincide more often than they diverge. Conspiracy theory again.
TheLibertarian wrote:
What I do find telling is that you haven't picked up on the even more blatant anti-Arabic (which you ought to find agreeable) and anti-black ideas expressed on ANUS, which I do not agree with.
How very liberal of you -- and how “telling� it is that you assume anti-Arab bigotry on my part. Perhaps you haven’t noticed that I have rather often spoken out, on this very forum, against anti-Arab and anti-Muslim bigotry; indeed, I am the guy that requested and put up my tokens for the establishment of a discussion subforum devoted to Islam. Tell me, can you explain why every liberation and anti-bigotry organization in history has featured Jews among its participants and leaders,
including those which oppose the oppression of Palestinians? How does that FACT fit into your “Jewish racism� assumptions and claims?
Now let’s examine some of the statements which you said you could “easily initial [your] name next to… as an endorsement of [your] own feelings.�
…if anti-Semitism is so obviously false, why must laws be made against it? If it is such a brazen lie, why does it recur, again and again, while other lies perish young? And finally, we must ask, if Jews are so wonderful, why have the fortunes of Europe and America waned after their acceptance into society?
Let’s find this out; exactly what “brazen lies� of anti-Semitism are actually true, and why are they true? Which recurring allegations is your beloved author talking about here? You endorsed these views -- do you dare to make them explicit?
Can you prove that “the fortunes of Europe and America� have “waned,� and can you prove that they “waned� because of the acceptance of Jews into society? I’d love to see your sources for THAT claim.
[The Jews’] values are entirely foreign to ours - their materialistic dualism does not match with the healthiest of European beliefs, cosmic idealism, and is in fact diametrically opposed to it, to the point that whenever a Jew opens his mouth to speak "ideology" you should be assured it is harmful to you - and should be ejected by any means necessary.
It occurs to be that this rather gives the lie to the claim that this “nihilism� recognizes no meaning and
no values, but that’s predictable enough. I’d like to see the sources that prove that this vituperative nonsense has anything whatever to do with the values of Jews, the Jewish community, or the Jewish religion.
Judaism is parasitic, there's no doubt about that. It makes a clear distinction between "the chosen people" and those goyim who are provided by the Jewish god to be a means of sustenance for the Jewish tribe.
Here again; please prove these allegations about Jewish belief and culture -- or at least give your sources for these incredibly bigoted and blatantly false claims.
Judaism is also racist, limiting itself for the most part to those of the Jewish ethnicity and excluding outsiders from its learning.
First please explain what this actually
means, and then let’s see if you have anything within shouting distance of credible proof or evidence for it.
What is “Jewish ethnicity� supposed to be, and how is Judaism “limited� to that ethnicity? Certainly there are Jews who have been Jewish for many generations -- those with the surname “Cohen,“ or related names, come to mind -- but there have been converts from the time of Abraham and Moses, and there still are. I am one, if you didn’t know. There is an entire book of the Hebrew Bible about the welcoming of converts, and King David himself was descended from one.
And on the claim about Jewish “learning� -- tell me, are there
secret teachings that Jews only discuss with each other? How are “outsiders� supposedly “excluded�? The complete Talmud, in English, is available in any large-city library; the entire corpus of Jewish literature and learning is available to all, all over the world. What does this abject silliness mean, and how do you propose to TRY to prove it? What are your sources and references for this horse manure?
Don’t try to beg off by saying that the author on A.N.U.S. wrote this, and not you; you signed off on it, and it’s yours now. Can you prove it, or will you retract it and apologize?
Very appropriate name for this website, by the way.
...[Judaism] is incompatible with European beliefs: where Europeans tend toward idealism, including the concept of self-sacrifice for a higher good, Judaism sees only the individual and individual comfort, and doesn't concern itself with long-term consequences. It is the religion of traders and money-changers...
Here again; what are your sources for these claims about the nature and teachings of Judaism? I can’t WAIT to see them.
Oh, yes; and where, in all the enormous library of scholarship and historical analysis and investigation you have no doubt studied, is there any acknowledgment of the fact that Jews in medieval Europe were forbidden to own land and thus to farm or raise animals, join the Guilds and so practice a skilled trade, or otherwise make a living by any means OTHER than trade? Where is there an acknowledgment that Jews, as the only segment of the population who were PERMITTED to lend money at interest, were enthusiastically encouraged and sometimes compelled to do that by the Church, the nobility, and the monarchy of every country in Europe? How just is it to compel a people to make their living in a particular way, and then sneer at and demean them for doing so?
Oh, never mind. I don’t really care to hear more old-school Nazi-style bigotry disguised as philosophy and radical politics.
...there is no solution to the Jewish question except to resolve that they and their partial descendants be ejected from European lands, as they are incompatible.
What “Jewish question�? Please explain what is meant by that phrase, and why there is a “question� concerned with Jews in particular.
That phrase has a very familiar ring. It’s often associated with a well-known meeting called the Wannsee conference, which was convened by Reinhard Heydrich to determine its “Final Solution.� That meeting reached the same conclusion as above, with the additional proviso of the Jews’ being “ejected from European lands� in the form of smoke. Alex Linder, for one -- a person apparently much admired by this author -- has no problem with that addendum.
...according to our values system, their beliefs are degenerate and parasitic.
And there it is again. “Our values system“? What “value system“? I thought nihilism preached the negation of values.
And by what standard are the beliefs of Judaism “degenerate and parasitic�? What are your sources? What authorities do you recognize on the subject of Jewish beliefs and values? Again, I can’t wait to see.
Well, here is your chance. Let’s see what you’ve got. You’ve made a lot of claims; can you back them up -- or will you back away, deny responsibility, claim it’s all “hyperbole� or “rhetoric� (again, as apologists for Hitler did in the 1930s), or otherwise try to run away?
Or will you stand up as the noble, principled Aryan that you apparently claim to be and back all this --
stuff -- up with the facts and scholarship which you no doubt have at your fingertips?