Are We Doomed Without Religion?

[JoeyKnothead]

edit>I apologize for placing this in TD&D, it was my intent to post it in C&A

From TD&D:

If there is no Biblical morality there is nothing wrong with me butchering my neighbours stealing all they have and having a laugh about it afterwards, just got to avoid the cops, but how can they arrest me for it if there is no right or wrong, if we are simply accidents of nature what does it matter, hang around your kids schools getting em hooked on drugs, whats it matter, no right or wrong, Bible does not matter, police go away without a morality your just another gang, guess we better start shooting them too, all is good and bad and all is ok.

Question for debate:

Is this really the consequence of not having, or I assume not practicing, that good ol' time religion?
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I think the quote represents the demonizing nature of religion. It sets itself up as the sole moral authority, and presumably teaches its adherents that this is how folks would act without it.
I find these kinds of statements somewhat scary, in that among this belief system some of the most horrible atrocities mankind has ever witnessed occurred. It is under this guise that religion is the moral authority that some of the most vile, disgusting, immoral acts have been committed with officials aware, and indeed as part of the doctrine of the Church.
I think it further frightening to know that this type of thinking informs theist thinking as regards what others may act like without religious belief.
Mostly sad though that this is the kind of thinking that results from religious belief.

(additional edit for clarity)

[spiritletter]

I agree, which is why I use the word "spiritual" when I describe my own practice. For example, it is unlikely that Christ, Buddha, Mahavira, Mohamed, etc. intended to found religions. Great teachers, true, but not administrators.

Indeed, however I would not be inclined to include Muhammad as a "great teacher".

In fact, I find many of the principals taught in Islam to be exceptionally offensive to say the least, not to forget to mention the way it is practised.

Well, there are aspects of Christianity that are pretty violent and offensive, too. I think we need to read selectively in religious scriptures and understand that the original impulses of a religion may be lost in as few as two generations, when the power freaks in the religious organizations begin to twist things their own way.

For example, I think the Hammurabi Code and Sharia are equally appalling.

[Mere_Christian]

I guess religion did a job in preserving the moral standards we experience them nowadays, although it should not be given credit for having an explicit monopoly on them.

Religion? "Religion."

What does that even mean?

For example, I've read the New Testament through quite a few times, and I just don't see the founding of a religion.

I've heard this said many times, but I just don't see the trappings (or rather wrappings) of a religion.

Religion:

. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

So many things we should be considering a religion. Especially current leftist political movements.

Although religions and the religious, generally claim to bestow morality, the truth of the matter is that this mistaken claim, is entirely fraudulent.

Although you're entitled to your opinion, and I wouldn't go as far as saying it is fraudulent, the fact of the matter is that at least one "religion" has made the place better morally. And that would be the religion based on the writings of the Apostles of Jesus.

Morals, Ethics, Virtues and Values, in spite of religion, are to be found within every culture.

And show a natural fact about what morality "is." "Don't kill my friends and family and I won;t kill yours. Yeah I get that that is a common theme. Too bad it's not observed more often these days in certain parts of the world.

Even atheists display high levels of these desirable characteristics

.

Some do most definately. But the fruits of atheism I'm not to trusting of.

Contrary to popular belief, religion adopts socially acceptable codes of conduct and not the other way around.

Well that's your opinion and hey, it's not all that bad an ideology. But I'm seeing in even modern day Christian culture, a bucking of the manistream as a foundation of that particular cultural expression. At least the one founded by the Apostles.

[Mere_Christian]

Morals, Ethics, Virtues and Values, in spite of religion, are to be found within every culture. Even atheists display high levels of these desirable characteristics.

I like this. And it fits the OP.

Some "Atheists" do display a high level of those characteristics you mention as desirable, but with a great deal of monitoring to make sure they're carried through on many levels of social interaction by many people that don't have those desireable traits that believe they have the absoluet knowledge of and about everything.

As I teach lots of young people, and I'm assuming most are Christians (Church org setting and I was an atheist in Church), I point them to the very words and accusations pointed towards Christians and Christianity by the skeptic/atheist perspective. When derived from compassion for the hurting and suffering among us, Atheism is quite embraceable by Christians. The more vitriolic version though, needs to be properly categorized too.

[spiritletter]

Morals, Ethics, Virtues and Values, in spite of religion, are to be found within every culture. Even atheists display high levels of these desirable characteristics.

I like this. And it fits the OP.

Some "Atheists" do display a high level of those characteristics you mention as desirable, but with a great deal of monitoring to make sure they're carried through on many levels of social interaction by many people that don't have those desireable traits that believe they have the absoluet knowledge of and about everything.

As I teach lots of young people, and I'm assuming most are Christians (Church org setting and I was an atheist in Church), I point them to the very words and accusations pointed towards Christians and Christianity by the skeptic/atheist perspective. When derived from compassion for the hurting and suffering among us, Atheism is quite embraceable by Christians. The more vitriolic version though, needs to be properly categorized too.

I work with and am friends with plenty of atheists whom I love. There is a particular kind of atheist, however, that seems to be coming from a personal problem and is quite hostile. Early abuse in one religion or another may be responsible. There are plenty of people whom religion has hurt through corrupt acts.

The belief arguments that go back and forth between atheists and believers are boring and pointless. It's not about proving anything. It's about practice and opening the heart.