Incorrect belief.

[postroad]

Some would say not believing in Jesus is an incorrect belief leading to damnation. But what about beliefs based on incorrect doctrines. Do they need to be repented from as a sin leading to damnation?

[myth-one.com]

And how does the Messiah/Savior Jesus provide this salvation?

By doing a rain dance.

No, but by His atonement on the Cross, of course. Which, believers in Old Testament times saw in types and shadows, beginning with Genesis 3:15 and believers in New Testament times see in the actual atonement (the fulfillment of those types and shadows.

Atonement: Reparation for an offense or injury.

Reparation: The act of making amends.

Are you saying that His death on the cross made amends for the sins of believers?

[PinSeeker]

Atonement: Reparation for an offense or injury.

Reparation: The act of making amends.

Are you saying that His death on the cross made amends for the sins of believers?

With regard to Biblical Christianity, myth-one, Jesus's act of atonement on the cross -- His crucifixion and death -- satisfies God's justice once and for all, backwards and forward in time and makes possible the reconciliation of God and those who repent of their sins, believe in Him, and rest upon Him and Him alone for their salvation.

If you disagree, that's your prerogative, but I wouldn't recommend it.

[myth-one.com]

Atonement: Reparation for an offense or injury.

Reparation: The act of making amends.

Are you saying that His death on the cross made amends for the sins of believers?

With regard to Biblical Christianity, myth-one, Jesus's act of atonement on the cross -- His crucifixion and death -- satisfies God's justice once and for all, backwards and forward in time and makes possible the reconciliation of God and those who repent of their sins, believe in Him, and rest upon Him and Him alone for their salvation.

If you disagree, that's your prerogative, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Is that a Yes?

[PinSeeker]

That's some website ya got there, myth-one.

[myth-one.com]

That's some website ya got there, myth-one.

I can accept no credit for it.

[PinSeeker]

That's some website ya got there, myth-one.

I can accept no credit for it.

Well that's good; yeah, I'd advise staying away from it.

[myth-one.com]

In posting Number 21, referring to Jesus, I asked PinSeeker:

Are you saying that His death on the cross made amends for the sins of believers?

Your answer was:

With regard to Biblical Christianity, myth-one, Jesus's act of atonement on the cross -- His crucifixion and death -- satisfies God's justice once and for all, backwards and forward in time and makes possible the reconciliation of God and those who repent of their sins, believe in Him, and rest upon Him and Him alone for their salvation.

His crucifixion and death completed the physical part of His mission on the Earth.

But it is not what saves anyone, as it is appointed unto all men once to die:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Everyone's first death is appointed as a consequence of being born as humans.

Thus, His death would have served no purpose, except for the fact that He lived a sinless life.

By living a sinless life, He qualified for everlasting spiritual life under the Old Testament Covenant (or whatever you want to call it).

But He will refuse His inheritance and freely offer it to those human sinners who accept Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Thus everlasting life becomes a gift of God through Jesus Christ, as opposed to being determined by our efforts to fulfill the Law.

Deceased Christians will be resurrected at the Second Coming.

Living Christians will be changed into Spirits at that same time.

All deceased nonbelievers (including those who died before Jesus' death) will be resurrected as humans a thousand years later, be preached the true good news, and make their decision at that time.

================================================

Learn the truth and be set free!

[PinSeeker]

Well, this is a mixed bag. There is some truth, here, but also quite a bit of misunderstanding.

In posting Number 21, referring to Jesus, I asked PinSeeker:

Are you saying that His death on the cross made amends for the sins of believers?

Your answer was:

With regard to Biblical Christianity, myth-one, Jesus's act of atonement on the cross -- His crucifixion and death -- satisfies God's justice once and for all, backwards and forward in time and makes possible the reconciliation of God and those who repent of their sins, believe in Him, and rest upon Him and Him alone for their salvation.

His crucifixion and death completed the physical part of His mission on the Earth.

But it is not what saves anyone...

That's not what I said. I did not say that's what saves anyone; I said that's what makes it possible for men to be saved, in that it satisfies God's justice (according to the Covenant of Works). We are saved "through faith; and that not of (ourselves), it is the gift of God; not as a result of (our) works, so that no one may boast" (Ephesians 2:9)

.., as it is appointed unto all men once to die:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Everyone's first death is appointed as a consequence of being born as humans.

Much agreed.

Thus, His death would have served no purpose, except for the fact that He lived a sinless life.

But this is far from the truth; as far as you can get, actually. As I said, Jesus's act of atonement on the cross... satisfies God's justice once and for all, backwards and forward in time and makes possible the reconciliation of men to God. It's possible for all, but effectual unto salvation for those who repent of their sins, believe in Jesus, and rest upon Him and Him alone for their salvation.

By living a sinless life, He qualified for everlasting spiritual life under the Old Testament Covenant (or whatever you want to call it).

This is not so far off, but needs some correcting: Jesus, because He is God, was never without eternal life, myth-one. He's from everlasting to everlasting, and thus always was, always is, and always will be, from all eternity to all eternity. And actually, if it were not for Adam's and Eve's sin in Eden, we would have never been without eternal life. But because of that sin, it was necessary for God, in the Person of Jesus, to condescend to us and be born of woman as we are, live a sinless life (thereby fulfilling God's Law), and then shed his blood on the cross -- lay His life down for His friends -- and thereby make it possible for us to "qualify for everlasting life" (if you want to put it that way). You're right in the fact that it was always God's Covenant of Works which had to be satisfied, and this is still the case, but Jesus provided that satisfaction in our stead, thereby making it possible for all men, past, present, and future, to obtain eternal life by faith in Him under the Covenant of Grace.

But He will refuse His inheritance and freely offer it to those human sinners who accept Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant...

Jesus refused/refuses nothing. But because of God's/His grace, He does freely offer it; that much is correct here. And this is the Covenant of Grace, offered in Old Testament times (after the fall) as well as New Testament times.

The language is very important here. The Covenant of Works is not to be confused with the Old Testament because it is always in effect from the time of Adam's and Eve's sin in Eden to the time of Jesus's return. And the Covenant of Grace is not to be confused with the New Testament because it is always in effect in the same time span (from the Fall to Jesus's return). The language is very important here. Your conflation of the terms is just plain wrong.

...everlasting life becomes a gift of God through Jesus Christ, as opposed to being determined by our efforts to fulfill the Law.

Absolutely correct. But this was true for believers in Old Testament times as well as now (in New Testament times). This is why the sacrificial system existed in the days of the Israelites. And Jesus Christ serves as the Final Sacrifice, thereby making the sacrificial system unnecessary from that time forward.

Deceased Christians will be resurrected at the Second Coming.

Absolutely. They will be reunited with their physical bodies, Just as Jesus was.

Living Christians will be changed into Spirits at that same time.

No, their physical bodies will become incorruptible, unable to sin, and unable to die again. Finally, we will really be like Jesus. We will not be "spirits," because Jesus is not spirit -- which we know for sure because of His physical bodily appearance to many after His resurrection; He even demonstrated His physical-ness by eating fish, remember? So yeah, and this is what Paul is saying in the last few verses of 1 Corinthians 15.

All deceased nonbelievers (including those who died before Jesus' death) will be resurrected as humans a thousand years later, be preached the true good news, and make their decision at that time.

Yikes. This is a misunderstanding of the millennium in Revelation 20. There are several different understandings of the millennium. What you're saying here seems to put you in the Post-Millennial camp. No, we are in the millennium now, which is not literally a thousand years, but the fullness of the age of the Gospel, which is from Jesus's birth to the time of His return. That's a whole 'nother conversation...

[brianbbs67]

Here's a logical way to simplify the debate. God made rules. We didn't or couldn't follow completely. Christ forgives us and then there are no rules??

Or shouldn't we still try to follow as best we can? And ask forgiveness when we don't?

If the rules change, God has changed. God says He does not change. The posible penalty changed by conditions, not the rules.

[myth-one.com]

Here's a logical way to simplify the debate. God made rules. We didn't or couldn't follow completely. Christ forgives us and then there are no rules??

Or shouldn't we still try to follow as best we can? And ask forgiveness when we don't?

If the rules change, God has changed. God says He does not change. The posible penalty changed by conditions, not the rules.

The rules have not changed:

The wages of sin is death. and sin is transgressing the laws of God.

(This "death"does not refer to man's first death -- as that death is appointed to all mankind.

It refers to mankind's possible second and everlasting death when cast into the lake of fire.)

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)

All mankind has sinned and is headed for this second death.

Gee, what can be done?

============================================

Oh, wait! God has an idea which He clearly documents in the Bible:

What if The Word becomes a man named Jesus Christ for a short time with all the trials and temptations which befall mankind. And even so, He manages to live a sinless life.

Upon His death, having never sinned, He would have earned the reward of everlasting life and not be headed for the second death.

It's His possession and God His Father will allow Him to do with it as He pleases.

Jesus chooses to offer His justly earned reward of everlasting life to any or all of us sinners who recognize and admit that we have sinned and believe in Jesus as our Savior from the wages of our sins.

Since by one man sin and death entered the world, it's logical that by one man the entire world might be saved by one man.

Neither the penalty nor the rules have changed. God made them and He does not change!

We have simply been offered a free gift.