Did Jesus feel abandoned by God as is implied in Matthew and Mark . Or did he remain divinely united as in Luke and John?
I was meditating on this yesterday , thinking God experiences our life with us joy and pain. (wouldn't this be what all knowing all present means?)
Thoughts?
Jesus last words
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ttruscott
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Re: Jesus last words
Post #11Whether or not, I don't believe the Psalm speaks to this question but rather speaks to the worldly appearance of His abandonment in contrast to the reality of HIS abasement being His victory.JehovahsWitness wrote:Can a person feel abandoned by someone yet at the same time still trust them?
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
Re: Jesus last words
Post #12[Replying to ttruscott]
this is a good answer. The whole meaning of the psalm glorifies God. It would seem from this that Jesus was accepting his death and heartisticlly not separate from God.
The effect of just those words alone however , leaves me feeling disrepair.
this is a good answer. The whole meaning of the psalm glorifies God. It would seem from this that Jesus was accepting his death and heartisticlly not separate from God.
The effect of just those words alone however , leaves me feeling disrepair.
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Jesus last words
Post #13I don't really understand what you have said here. I was simply addressing the different sentiments expressed in the various gospel accounts as per the OP.ttruscott wrote:Whether or not, I don't believe the Psalm speaks to this question but rather speaks to the worldly appearance of His abandonment in contrast to the reality of HIS abasement being His victory.JehovahsWitness wrote:Can a person feel abandoned by someone yet at the same time still trust them?
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: Jesus last words
Post #14Almost certainly. He invented things to impress with a wild story. Take this account:dio9 wrote:
I wonder if the animosity of the pharisees mocking Jesus wasn't made up by Matthew's animosity toward the Pharisees?
Matthew 27:52
" and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. "
Even devout people smile at this exaggeration.
Re: Jesus last words
Post #15[Replying to polonius.advice]
the only people recorded to be at the foot of the cross were Magdalene, Mary mother of James and Joseph, and Salome, John writes his mother and her sister too and the beloved disciple. (who that was is debatable) but it was not Matthew Mark Luke or John. In fact Luke writes his gospel is based on what had been handed down. Luke writes what he says is most surely believed by us. delivered unto us by eyewitnesses.
the only people recorded to be at the foot of the cross were Magdalene, Mary mother of James and Joseph, and Salome, John writes his mother and her sister too and the beloved disciple. (who that was is debatable) but it was not Matthew Mark Luke or John. In fact Luke writes his gospel is based on what had been handed down. Luke writes what he says is most surely believed by us. delivered unto us by eyewitnesses.
Re: Jesus last words
Post #16RESPONSE: Eyewitness to what exactly? Please provide your reference.dio9 wrote: [Replying to polonius.advice]
the only people recorded to be at the foot of the cross were Magdalene, Mary mother of James and Joseph, and Salome, John writes his mother and her sister too and the beloved disciple. (who that was is debatable) but it was not Matthew Mark Luke or John. In fact Luke writes his gospel is based on what had been handed down. Luke writes what he says is most surely believed by us. delivered unto us by eyewitnesses.
Re: Jesus last words
Post #17[Replying to polonius.advice]
For Even as they delivered them
unto
us,
which
from
the
beginning were eyewitnesses,
and ministers of the word"
Luke 1:2
For Even as they delivered them
unto
us,
which
from
the
beginning were eyewitnesses,
and ministers of the word"
Luke 1:2
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brianbbs67
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Re: Jesus last words
Post #19QUESTION: Isn't this "God breathed" scripture? You aren't suggesting that it contains fiction, are you?marco wrote:Almost certainly. He invented things to impress with a wild story. Take this account:dio9 wrote:
I wonder if the animosity of the pharisees mocking Jesus wasn't made up by Matthew's animosity toward the Pharisees?
Matthew 27:52
" and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. "
Even devout people smile at this exaggeration.
Re: Jesus last words
Post #20[Replying to brianbbs67]
I take the eyewitnesses to be the original disciples and apostles. They all may not have been at the foot of cross but they were part of the greater drama. And as Luke said , they handed down a narrative of the events to many of us who have compelled accounts.
The Dedication to Theophilus
1 Many have undertaken to compile a narrative about the events that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as the original eyewitnesses and servants of the word handed them down to us.
Luke's Gospel was compiled from these eyewitness reports.
John's Gospel was written about 30 years after Luke's. I suppose John could still have been alive but he would have been at least by my estimate 90 years old, and for literary reasons as well doubt apostle John wrote the Gospel of John.
I take the eyewitnesses to be the original disciples and apostles. They all may not have been at the foot of cross but they were part of the greater drama. And as Luke said , they handed down a narrative of the events to many of us who have compelled accounts.
The Dedication to Theophilus
1 Many have undertaken to compile a narrative about the events that have been fulfilled[a] among us, 2 just as the original eyewitnesses and servants of the word handed them down to us.
Luke's Gospel was compiled from these eyewitness reports.
John's Gospel was written about 30 years after Luke's. I suppose John could still have been alive but he would have been at least by my estimate 90 years old, and for literary reasons as well doubt apostle John wrote the Gospel of John.
