Could I ask a favor?

[onewithhim]

Hi. I want to ask that only people who truly want to learn more about what the Bible says about living forever in Paradise on Earth to post on this thread. Please. I don't want to argue. I would very much appreciate it if people who think everybody is either going to heaven or to Hell would not start a battle of words here. I hope to hear from people who think that PSALM 37:9-11, and also verse 29, sounds pretty good. Thank you. OWH

[William]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

I notice you didn't actually answer my question. My question was: Did the original paradise of Eden which God created not have fruit trees?

You can’t be serious.

I did answer your question in demonstrating just because Genesis tells us the Adam and Eve Garden of Eden story does not mean there necessarily was a literal fruit tree. Or that God created the world in 7 literal days, etc. The story has allegorical components – that every Biblical scholar would acknowledge. The tree of knowledge is meant to convey a message to us from God – to explain creation and the fall and establish our relationship with God, but is not necessarily literal in its description of the story of Adam and Eve.

So, your question did the Garden of Eden have fruit trees is irrelevant. Kind of like asking was Eve blonde? Also, even if that was a literal aspect of the story – that does not imply our new eternal home will have fruit trees that we will be expected to cultivate and eat for nourishment. It is your assumption that where we will spend eternity is exactly as depicted in Genesis, but this is something we do not know. And like I said JW’s even take it further than that and depict us having families, gardening, and swimming with the dolphins in heaven unable to answer then quite valid questions like will the average woman in “paradise earth� menstruate and have a trillion offspring – taking eternity into account.

. . Well, what say you?

Exactly!

It is one thing to have beliefs and another to examine the beliefs in respect to the question "Have these beliefs been well thought through or simply accepted without much thought at all, other than of course the belief that "the bible tells me so, therefore there is nothing at all to question".

"The answer is 42" is about as relevant...

Like you, I too await - perhaps in vain - for JW to respond to my own pertinent questions on the subject. I thought perhaps she needed time to take the questions to the elders of her sect, but she assured me that she was capable of answering the questions for herself...what is one to make of that? One simply has to continue waiting...perhaps it is not important at all?

Maybe I will have to wait until the JayDubs knock upon my cottage door with their good news and I can get my answers that way.

[JehovahsWitness]

GENESIS 1:29


God said, “Behold, I have given you every seed-bearing plant on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit contains seed. They will be yours for food.

Good News Translation
I have provided all kinds of grain and all kinds of fruit for you to eat

... Genesis tells us the Adam and Eve Garden of Eden story does not mean there necessarily was a literal fruit tree.

Emphasis MINE


Interesting POV. May I ask, do you believe God created Adam and Eve literal as male and a female humans on the earth prior to their sin?

MATTHEW 19:4

"Haven't you read the Scriptures?" Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female.' - New Living Translation

[polonius]

JW asked,

[post] Interesting POV. May I ask, do you believe God created Adam and Eve literal as male and a female humans on the earth prior to their sin? [/post]

RESPONSE: No. That Hebrew folklore was first written during the Babylonian captivity. Can you cite an earlier source?

[For_The_Kingdom]

Peace to you OWH.

[Replying to post 2 by onewithhim]

There are ZERO people on this forum that are interested in the Paradise Earth that the Bible promises.

In your OP you ask that only people who truly want to learn about what the bible says about Paradise earth, should post. Maybe you should have said that only people who wanted to discuss what the bible says about Paradise earth should post?

Or maybe people just missed the post?


I will discuss this with you though. What would you like to start with?


Peace again to you (and good to hear from you!)!

Good point, tam. It is apparent that the person who started the thread has spoken like a true Jehovah's Witness. They believe that they are the Bible experts and that their organization is "God's organization", so everyone should "learn" from them.

Everyone else should "learn" from them, yet they are the ones with the history of doctrinal flip flops and false prophecies.

LOL.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 42 by JehovahsWitness]

Interesting POV. May I ask, do you believe God created Adam and Eve literal as male and a female humans on the earth prior to their sin?

Yes, I already explained Genesis has literal take aways for us to establish who we are, our purpose, our relationship with God, etc. Whether there were apple trees or pear trees is of little concern and fails to understand the point of Genesis.

Also, might be nice if you could answer any of my questions. They are serious questions. Does the Watchtower not address these . . .

Why is everyone in JW pamphlets clothed if there was no shame prior to Adam & Eve? (I think I recall a JW once explaining we will wear what makes us comfortable.) LOL! Talk about illogical. How can one be uncomfortable in paradise?

If a woman can have a baby on planet paradise, does that mean she menstruates? Will her blood smell like roses?

What determines if she conceives after having sexual intercourse? If she wants to? If it is God’s will? What if she doesn’t want a baby in paradise earth, but conceives? What if she wants a baby, but doesn’t conceive? Can she have a million? I mean that really isn’t that many if we are talking eternity here . . .

Will the animals talk in paradise earth? Didn't the snake talk to Eve? I don't recall her seeming too shocked over that.

Can I eat steak in paradise earth?

Will there be hot fudge sundaes or just fruit trees?

Since Adam & Eve existed there are now machines that can pick apples from trees, would people on paradise earth utilize our God given intelligence to invent machines to help us with all this gardening and farming?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 42 by JehovahsWitness]

Interesting POV. May I ask, do you believe God created Adam and Eve literal as male and a female humans on the earth prior to their sin?

Yes, I already explained Genesis has literal take aways for us to establish who we are, our purpose, our relationship with God, etc.

I didn't ask you if "Genesis has literal take aways" I asked you were Adam and Eve literal human beings or not. Liiteral humans have (unless they are deformed) digestive systems. So were Adam and Eve physical literal humans or not? Even Jesus the son of God had a digestive system, ( I take it you believe Jesus was literally a human being While on earth), so were Adam and Eve literal human beings or not?




JW

[RightReason]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

I didn't ask you if "Genesis has literal take aways" I asked you were Adam and Eve literal human beings or not. Liiteral humans have (unless they are deformed) digestive systems. So were Adam and Eve physical literal humans or not? Even Jesus the son of God had a digestive system, ( I take it you believe Jesus was literally a human being While on earth), so were Adam and Eve literal human beings or not?

Adam & Eve represent us – God’s human creatures. We, just like Jesus, are literal human beings, but what was Jesus like after the Resurrection? We are told He talked, and walked, and ate. But what else are we told?


He appeared through shut doors (John 20:26) and vanished before their eyes (Luke 24:31) and appeared in different shapes (Mark 16:12).


Christ’s body, though real, was “glorified� St. Thomas cites St. Gregory saying that "Christ's body is shown to be of the same nature, but of different glory, after the Resurrection� (III, 54, article 2).


As we would say in modern scientific terminology, the glorified body is not subject to the forces and laws of physics and chemistry.


In Christ’s resurrected body, the elements would be subject to the power of Christ.


He tells the Colossians that Christ is our life: “When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory� (Col. 3:4).

He assures the Corinthians of the promise: “That which is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now he that maketh us for this very thing, is God, who hath given us the pledge of the Spirit� (2 Cor. 5:4-5)

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/onlin ... dy-made-of


There will be a resurrection of all, as St. Paul explains in First Corinthians chapter 15. Those who have been faithful to Christ will rise glorious, their bodies transformed on the model of the risen body of Christ, who could travel instantly at will, could ignore closed doors and come through anyway, but yet had real flesh. St. Paul says the risen body is "spiritual " (15:44). It is still flesh, but such that the flesh is completely dominated by the soul, so that it can no longer suffer or die.

https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/rboda1.htm

So, in sum . . . what exactly is meant by a glorified body is yet to be seen. If the resurrected body could travel at will and go thru doors this does not appear to be reflected in Watchtower pamphlets. So, I am skeptical in believing in heaven we will be pushing wheel barrels full of apples like the JW brochures suggest.

Now again, if you could answer my questions . . .

will women menstruate on paradise earth and only ovulate once a month. How long is a month in eternity? Will a baby take 9 months to develop? Enquiring minds want to know.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness]

I didn't ask you if "Genesis has literal take aways" I asked you were Adam and Eve literal human beings or not. Liiteral humans have (unless they are deformed) digestive systems. So were Adam and Eve physical literal humans or not? Even Jesus the son of God had a digestive system, ( I take it you believe Jesus was literally a human being While on earth), so were Adam and Eve literal human beings or not?

Adam & Eve represent us – God’s human creatures.

So is that yes, they were human beings (with digestive systems)? I ask because I don't see the word "yes" or "no" in your answer and it's still not clear to me if you believe they were literal human beings or not. Can you type the word "yes" or "no" to the question: "were Adam and Eve physical literal humans?"

Feell free to say "I don't know what I believe on this question" or "I'm not allowed to say", or "I'm uncomfortable answering your question" if that be the case. But as yet you have not made it clear if you believe they were literal humans (with digestive systems, like Jesus' when on earth that ate and digested)




JW

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]

So is that yes, they were human beings (with digestive systems)? I ask because I don't see the word "yes" or "no" in your answer and it's still not clear to me if you believe they were literal human beings or not. Can you type the word "yes" or "no" to the question: "were Adam and Eve physical literal humans?"

I gave you even more than a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’. Why don’t you go back to my last post and read the 2nd sentence. I can't do all the work here.

I don’t think I could have been any clearer. I also still don’t think you’ve answered a single question of mine and yet I answer everyone of yours. Now, that doesn’t seem fair.

If you can’t answer them, “feel free to say, "I don't know what I believe on this question" or "I'm not allowed to say", or "I'm uncomfortable answering your question" if that be the case.�

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 48 by JehovahsWitness]

So is that yes, they were human beings (with digestive systems)? I ask because I don't see the word "yes" or "no" in your answer and it's still not clear to me if you believe they were literal human beings or not. Can you type the word "yes" or "no" to the question: "were Adam and Eve physical literal humans?"

I gave you even more than a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’. ... I don’t think I could have been any clearer.

Well you could be clearer by typing "yes" or "no" to the question. Thank you for giving me more but could you see your way to giving me less, as I can't quite follow what you're saying.


My question is: Do you believe Adam and Eve where literal human beings (with digestive systems)?


JW

Catholic Douay Version

“The Lord God had planted a paradise of pleasure from the beginning: wherein he placed [Adam] whom he had formed. And the Lord God brought forth of the ground all manner of trees, fair to behold, and pleasant to eat of� - Genesis 2:8, 9 (Italics MINE)