In addition to gospels and epistles, the church has number of “Fathers of the Church� many of which are claimed to be saints too.
Is what they claim supposed to be “God breathed,� too?
Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
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Re: Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
Post #11[Replying to polonius.advice]
The fathers were writing about the risen Christ. They (like it or not) are the foundation upon which Christianity is built. So yes we are to definitely consider what they thought as important. They sincerely believed the impossible and did their best to rationalize it. They were Greeks of course and needed to try to make sense of things like Trinity and the Divinity of Christ.
The fathers were writing about the risen Christ. They (like it or not) are the foundation upon which Christianity is built. So yes we are to definitely consider what they thought as important. They sincerely believed the impossible and did their best to rationalize it. They were Greeks of course and needed to try to make sense of things like Trinity and the Divinity of Christ.
Re: Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
Post #12That sounds as if being Greek is a handicap. Do you suppose Canadians or Germans or Latvians can better cope with the Trinity or the divinity of Jesus? It's possible Jesus himself didn't cope with the Trinity.dio9 wrote:
They were Greeks of course and needed to try to make sense of things like Trinity and the Divinity of Christ.
Re: Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
Post #13[Replying to marco]
No I mean the Fathers were natural born philosophers. They gave Christianity it's philosophical base.
No I mean the Fathers were natural born philosophers. They gave Christianity it's philosophical base.
Re: Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
Post #14RESPONSE: Perhaps you would want to examine their credibility then. Lets start with the big one. (St) Augustine told us that everyone is personally guilty of Adam's sin. (The stain of Original Sin). Do we believe that any more?dio9 wrote: [Replying to polonius.advice]
The fathers were writing about the risen Christ. They (like it or not) are the foundation upon which Christianity is built. So yes we are to definitely consider what they thought as important. They sincerely believed the impossible and did their best to rationalize it. They were Greeks of course and needed to try to make sense of things like Trinity and the Divinity of Christ.
Do we believe thatt anymore.
Re: Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
Post #15[Replying to polonius.advice]
perhaps we can discuss what being put out of the garden means.
And if there is a God, (which I believe there is ) why are we the only creatures out of sync?
or maybe you believe the human race is not out of sync with the rest of creation.
perhaps we can discuss what being put out of the garden means.
And if there is a God, (which I believe there is ) why are we the only creatures out of sync?
or maybe you believe the human race is not out of sync with the rest of creation.
Re: Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
Post #16According to Jeremiah 17:19, in the "day of distress", which would be the "awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31), the nations/Gentiles will cry, "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood". Which is to say, no, the "Fathers of the Church", have all been deceived (Revelation 13:14), ergo, their followers have been deceived as well.polonius.advice wrote: In addition to gospels and epistles, the church has number of “Fathers of the Church� many of which are claimed to be saints too.
Is what they claim supposed to be “God breathed,� too?
Re: Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
Post #17[Replying to post 14 by polonius.advice]
actually I am thinking about the Greek Fathers. there wee many. Augustine was one ol the later Latin Fathers and depended on the writings of the Greeks. It was the writings of the Greeks from the second third and forth centuries who were the foundation of Christianity. Augustine was a fifth century writer. His work was basically on his own salvation and the defense of Christianity while Pagan Rome was falling.
actually I am thinking about the Greek Fathers. there wee many. Augustine was one ol the later Latin Fathers and depended on the writings of the Greeks. It was the writings of the Greeks from the second third and forth centuries who were the foundation of Christianity. Augustine was a fifth century writer. His work was basically on his own salvation and the defense of Christianity while Pagan Rome was falling.
Post #18
Why should we believe anyone without question?
First of all, those who wrote scripture, wrote what they saw and what they heard, with their own understanding. Their writings are nothing but a witness to the truth they we're shown. It is their testament, a witness of things they understood to be true.
Both the old and the New testament, is a book of witness to what they saw and heard.
If that Spirit (which showed them truth) lives in me, why do I automatically have to differ to them? I use them as a witness, to check my own understanding, to reprove myself (if needed), to know that the doctrine I see is right or wrong,
I don't take nourishment from those books, I find rest in them.
Much like the garden of Eden, where Christ is the tree of life, I get my nourishment from the spirit of Christ. Then, I go to that book, that other tree planted in the garden, where I can sit in the shade and eat what I've been given for nourishment with my brothers (those who wrote scripture) their is no life to be found in books, all you can find is knowledge of right and wrong, but from that tree of life, we are given both knowledge and understanding, and that brings us the life he gives.
And I know where those snakes are in that tree of knowledge.
Like Jesus said, search the scriptures, in them you think you have eternal life, but you will not turn to me.
It doesn't matter what books you read, or don't read. What matters is why do you need books?
First of all, those who wrote scripture, wrote what they saw and what they heard, with their own understanding. Their writings are nothing but a witness to the truth they we're shown. It is their testament, a witness of things they understood to be true.
Both the old and the New testament, is a book of witness to what they saw and heard.
If that Spirit (which showed them truth) lives in me, why do I automatically have to differ to them? I use them as a witness, to check my own understanding, to reprove myself (if needed), to know that the doctrine I see is right or wrong,
I don't take nourishment from those books, I find rest in them.
Much like the garden of Eden, where Christ is the tree of life, I get my nourishment from the spirit of Christ. Then, I go to that book, that other tree planted in the garden, where I can sit in the shade and eat what I've been given for nourishment with my brothers (those who wrote scripture) their is no life to be found in books, all you can find is knowledge of right and wrong, but from that tree of life, we are given both knowledge and understanding, and that brings us the life he gives.
And I know where those snakes are in that tree of knowledge.
Like Jesus said, search the scriptures, in them you think you have eternal life, but you will not turn to me.
It doesn't matter what books you read, or don't read. What matters is why do you need books?
Re: Are we to believe what Fathers of the Church taught?
Post #19QUESTION: Was Christ and the any of the Apostles still alive in the second century?Jack wrote: [Replying to polonius.advice]
The Catholic Church does not consider the writing of the early church fathers inspired, but it does consider it a reliable source of history. These early writings contain a glimpse of what the early church was like, early heresy and the very names of the heretics that opposed church teaching. There is bible commentary, sermons, structure of the Sunday church service. A lot of these writings are from the first and second centuries. So many of these writings are from people that learned about Jesus directly from the original Apostles. Closer to the well spring before the water got muddied up.
Post #20
WPG12 wrote: Why should we believe anyone without question?
First of all, those who wrote scripture, wrote what they saw and what they heard, with their own understanding. Their writings are nothing but a witness to the truth they we're shown. It is their testament, a witness of things they understood to be true.
Both the old and the New testament, is a book of witness to what they saw and heard.
If that Spirit (which showed them truth) lives in me, why do I automatically have to differ to them? I use them as a witness, to check my own understanding, to reprove myself (if needed), to know that the doctrine I see is right or wrong,
I don't take nourishment from those books, I find rest in them.
Much like the garden of Eden, where Christ is the tree of life, I get my nourishment from the spirit of Christ. Then, I go to that book, that other tree planted in the garden, where I can sit in the shade and eat what I've been given for nourishment with my brothers (those who wrote scripture) their is no life to be found in books, all you can find is knowledge of right and wrong, but from that tree of life, we are given both knowledge and understanding, and that brings us the life he gives.
And I know where those snakes are in that tree of knowledge.
Like Jesus said, search the scriptures, in them you think you have eternal life, but you will not turn to me.
It doesn't matter what books you read, or don't read. What matters is why do you need books?
QUESTION Which Christian writer wrote before 800 - 700 BC? Was he a witness to the events in the Garden of Eden?
Please provide your reference for this claim.Like Jesus said, search the scriptures, in them you think you have eternal life, but you will not turn to me.
