Here is a thread I started on another forum, but wanted to put it up here as well. I am new here, but I am already enjoying this forum much better. Less trolls and better discussion and attitudes.
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This is a response to a tread about John 1:1 and how the New World Translation corrects this mistake about calling the Word "God". The NWT claims to fix this issue by calling the Word "a god". Next the assertion is there are many gods in the Bible and being a god is different than being God, implying that God is not a god. Being a god is said to be more of a title or status, and nothing could be further from the truth.
First there is a word play here does not exist in the Hebrew. There is no capitalization in Hebrew, so in English terms, there is no big or little g. The context of the scripture would have let the reader know which god is being talked about. Even from a grammatical point of view this changes nothing. Here is what I mean. It is grammatically correct and scripturally correct for me to say that "God is a god". God is just a proper pronoun letting us know which god we are talking about. A god is not a status but the nature of something. God is a god because he happens to be a spiritually divine being.
So changing John 1:1 does not change the problem of the Word being called God. You are still left with a big problem of the identity of Jesus if he was by nature an elohim.
The next tactic that will be used to to bring up that there are many gods in the Bible. This is a silly argument, because all of the other gods of the Bible are false gods or men calling themselves gods. Neither of the two pleases God, so I find it odd that this is used to justify the Word being called a god/elohim and he not be God. Lets break it down even further. Just because men made up gods and created images to them, does not make them a real god. Same if a man calls himself or another person a god, it does not make them a true god. Again this does not please God to do so.
Here is my beleif, that God/elohim is the only real god/elohim in the scriptures. All other gods/elohim are false gods/elohim. No where in scripture is it a good thing to be call a god/elohim if the thing being talked about is not God himself.
While I started off mentioning The NWT I am eager to hear from all who do not believe that Jesus is God, not just Jehovahs Witness. I prefer not to hear from Trinitarians and Unitarians on this post, but ultimately am not opposed to it.
My last request is that for those responding, try and keep it short. I do not want a page of verses quoted and a dissertation on each on. Lets try and keep it to a verse or two at a time so we can actually have a discussion that is meaningful.
Thanks and look forward to hearing from all of you out there.
The New World Translation does not change John 1:1
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EastwardTraveler
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2timothy316
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2timothy316
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EastwardTraveler
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Re: The New World Translation does not change John 1:1
Post #116[Replying to 101G]
So I tend to agree with you and your stance in Revelation, but was just stating that it is a different arguement. You said they,the JW's, was going to have a problem with their translation because of Revelation and I just wanted to point that I didnt see one. The issue of Revelation 22 can stand alone on its own is all i meant.
As for the the word elohim, elohim is not exclusively a plural word. It is a morphalogically plural and it is the verb that determines whether the noun is plural or not. I know this is taught to many Christians, but it is incorrect. Just so you know I believe in the plurality in the godhead, but we must do so correctly and teach correctly whereever we can. It only hurts us in the long run not to do so.
Just so we are tracking I believe as you do in who Jesus is. It is just that my point in this thread is strictly on Jesus being called an el or elohim. [/b][/i][/u]
So I tend to agree with you and your stance in Revelation, but was just stating that it is a different arguement. You said they,the JW's, was going to have a problem with their translation because of Revelation and I just wanted to point that I didnt see one. The issue of Revelation 22 can stand alone on its own is all i meant.
As for the the word elohim, elohim is not exclusively a plural word. It is a morphalogically plural and it is the verb that determines whether the noun is plural or not. I know this is taught to many Christians, but it is incorrect. Just so you know I believe in the plurality in the godhead, but we must do so correctly and teach correctly whereever we can. It only hurts us in the long run not to do so.
Just so we are tracking I believe as you do in who Jesus is. It is just that my point in this thread is strictly on Jesus being called an el or elohim. [/b][/i][/u]
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EastwardTraveler
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Re: The New World Translation does not change John 1:1
Post #117[Replying to post 108 by 2timothy316]
Is that not what hou are doing? Taking your example and plugging it in to fit your view. Seems like it to me. Not saying your are wrong or right in your final conclusion but you seem to be doing the same thing.
Is that not what hou are doing? Taking your example and plugging it in to fit your view. Seems like it to me. Not saying your are wrong or right in your final conclusion but you seem to be doing the same thing.
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brianbbs67
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Post #119
Revelations 22:6 is not a mystery. Read the words of the , oft inaccurate NKJ, it seems right here. God orders it Christ orders it to the messenger and the messenger does.
IMG_0992 by brianbbs67, on Flickr
IMG_0993 by brianbbs67, on Flickr
IMG_0994 by brianbbs67, on Flickr[/img]
IMG_0992 by brianbbs67, on FlickrIMG_0993 by brianbbs67, on FlickrIMG_0994 by brianbbs67, on Flickr[/img]Post #120
brianbbs67 wrote: Revelations 22:6 is not a mystery. Read the words of the , oft inaccurate NKJ, it seems right here. God orders it Christ orders it to the messenger and the messenger does.
GINOLJC, to all. yes, Revelation 22:6 is no mystery, the Lord God of the Holy Prophets is JESUS, who is the Holy Spirit, that is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses. the ONE true God.
these new translation try to turn the words of God to fit their thinking of what is conveyed in the scriptures. get the real KJV and let the Holy God reveal himself to you.
Peace in Christ Yeshua, Jesus.
PS, if you look at the first pic, verse 4 says it all. "they shall see his face", not their faces, no, "his" face. one person.
