Evangelicals and Trinitarians

[Elijah John]

Jesus said:

After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be thy name
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done.
in earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into tempation, but deliver us from evil: for thine
is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

I understand that many do not pray this prayer verbatim, and perhaps this was not Jesus intention. (after this manner therefore pray ye)

But do Evangelicals and other Trinitarians pray after this manner? Do they use the Lord's prayer even as a model for prayer?

After hearing many spontaneous and extemporaneous Evangelical prayers, I always hear "in Jesus name we pray". But seldom (if ever) do I hear any reference to the Father's name at all, in Evangelical prayer.

Why is that?

If one omits any reference to the name of the Father, is one praying as Jesus taught?

[2timothy316]

Jeremiah 23:27 says, “They are thinking of making my people forget my name by means of their dreams that they keep relating each one to the other, just as their fathers forgot my name by means of Baal.�

The removal or forgetting of God's name is an age old Satanic plot. Why, even in Jerusalem there were false prophets trying to get people to forget the name of God. Seems to me in the future when there are only true worshipers of Jehovah on Earth, we will write something similar about today's teachings. Just take Baal out of that scripture and put the trinity and it would apply to the situation today. It's as I keep saying, same pig different color lipstick. The Bible puts it this way, “Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light.�​—2 Cor 11:14. Thus his teachings keep trying to do the same. Satan doesn't care who's name people remember as long as it's not God's name, Jehovah.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by 2timothy316]

While I am hesitant to ascribe diabolical motives or methods to anyone or any particular religous group, I do agree that omitting, ignoring or placing God's name "off limits" does Him no honor.

Though Evangelicals do not yet honor Father YHVH by name in their typical prayers, it is refreshing to see that some seem to have (re)discovered the name of God for specific purposes. For example, they will invoke compound variations such as "Jehovah-Jireh" for provision, "Jehovah-Shalom" for peace, "Jehovah-Rapha" for healing, etc.

But I've not seen them invoke Jehovah for the forgiveness of their sins as Jesus taught in the Lord's prayer, and (correct me if I'm mistaken) they seem to consider the name "Jehovah" as one of many names for God, instead of THE Name of the Father, which Jesus ivokes or alludes to and King David constantly extols in the Psalms.

[Divine Insight]

The evangelicals I grew up around always started their prayers with:

"Dear Heavenly Father"

That's addressing GOD, or YHVH or Yahweh, or whatever label you want to give the the big honcho.

Then after every prayer they end with:

"In Jesus name we pray".

So they are praying to God, in Jesus' name.

They aren't praying to Jesus. If you think they are praying to Jesus then you aren't paying attention.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

All I can say is my God is father holy spirit and son. Each unique in character I am specially grateful for my savior Jesus, he has saved me a number of times, and grateful for the holy spirit who has nurtured me in times of need and of course how can I not be grateful for our heavenly father for keeping it all together. All are aspects of God , ust as we can all be nurturing saving and holding it all together.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

All I can say is my God is father holy spirit and son. Each unique in character I am specially grateful for my savior Jesus, he has saved me a number of times, and grateful for the holy spirit who has nurtured me in times of need and of course how can I not be grateful for our heavenly father for keeping it all together. All are aspects of God , ust as we can all be nurturing saving and holding it all together.

It sounds as though you are speaking from personal exprience. It is clear that your understanding of God works for you, and who is anyone to argue?

I was brought up Trinitarian and it never worked for me as well as pure Monotheism. Seems God honors both approaches, and meets us where we are.

It is we humans who argue about and get bogged down in theology. God is above it all.

[Elijah John]

The evangelicals I grew up around always started their prayers with:

"Dear Heavenly Father"

That's addressing GOD, or YHVH or Yahweh, or whatever label you want to give the the big honcho.

Then after every prayer they end with:

"In Jesus name we pray".

So they are praying to God, in Jesus' name.

They aren't praying to Jesus. If you think they are praying to Jesus then you aren't paying attention.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make in this OP. Yes, they address the Father, but not by name. They usually do not even mention the name of God , or allude to it as Jesus did. But they always make it a point to "pray in Jesus name".

And that wasn't what Jesus taught when teaching the Lord's Prayer, how to pray.

Having said that, I know of Evangelicals who do pray to Jesus, and sometimes leaving the Father completely out of the "Triniarian forumla".

"Dear Jesus, thank you for this food, in Jesus name Amen".Does such a prayer even "get off the ground"? Maybe, especially if God honors sincerity.

Or "Jesus, come into my heart, save my soul and forgive my sins".

Where is the Father in those prayers?

Listening in perhaps, with an understandig smile for his well intentioned children.

[bluethread]

If one looks at that verse, it should be noted that it does not state the name or direct people to use the name. It say, "hallowed be thy name". The injunction is to recognize that the name is to be recognized as set apart from all others. Now, one can get into a discussion as to whether this is referring to a specific grouping of letters, or the concept that grouping of letters represents. But for now, this passage does not indicted that one should use that grouping of letters when one is praying.

With regard to the "in Jesus name" thing, there is such a command found in the Apostolic Writings. However, if one wishes to be picky about it, J-E-S-U-S is not the letter grouping in that command. Those are the letters that the translators chose, as their best fit.

So, for me, the obsession over insisting that people use a particular letter grouping in referring to Adonai and Yeshua is misplaced. What is important, in my view, is the concept being communicated. Though, I have my preferences and would encourage others to follow my example, I do not make an issue of it. In our shul, we do pray the shema and "the Lords's prayer" every Shabbat, however, the terms, Lord, God, Adonai, Yeshua, Jesus, and other such references are used in conversation. Regarding private prayers, they are private and we only address how one should pray in private, if someone brings up the issue.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 2 by 2timothy316]

While I am hesitant to ascribe diabolical motives or methods to anyone or any particular religous group, I do agree that omitting, ignoring or placing God's name "off limits" does Him no honor.

Though Evangelicals do not yet honor Father YHVH by name in their typical prayers, it is refreshing to see that some seem to have (re)discovered the name of God for specific purposes. For example, they will invoke compound variations such as "Jehovah-Jireh" for provision, "Jehovah-Shalom" for peace, "Jehovah-Rapha" for healing, etc.

But I've not seen them invoke Jehovah for the forgiveness of their sins as Jesus taught in the Lord's prayer, and (correct me if I'm mistaken) they seem to consider the name "Jehovah" as one of many names for God, instead of THE Name of the Father, which Jesus ivokes or alludes to and King David constantly extols in the Psalms.

What I find interesting are the weak reasons for omitting the name Jehovah. People don't seek to omit the name Zeus from the Bible. They don't hide any other name in the Bible. If we think about it for a second, shouldn't people ask themselves, 'why does this name get omitted'? Here's the real kicker, this is in every language! In every land this name is being omitted from Bibles and prayers. This is clear evidence that this is an organized effort. But why? How does knowing God's name hurt people? How does using the Divine Name work against them?

Then those that seek to make people forget that name start in with the weak answers to these questions. But, this is why tradition is warned about in the Bible. Because it is tradition that is the trampling God's name. Going all the way back to Jerusalem. It just keeps getting past on breaking language barriers, time barriers and religious barriers.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 2 by 2timothy316]

While I am hesitant to ascribe diabolical motives or methods to anyone or any particular religous group, I do agree that omitting, ignoring or placing God's name "off limits" does Him no honor.

Though Evangelicals do not yet honor Father YHVH by name in their typical prayers, it is refreshing to see that some seem to have (re)discovered the name of God for specific purposes. For example, they will invoke compound variations such as "Jehovah-Jireh" for provision, "Jehovah-Shalom" for peace, "Jehovah-Rapha" for healing, etc.

But I've not seen them invoke Jehovah for the forgiveness of their sins as Jesus taught in the Lord's prayer, and (correct me if I'm mistaken) they seem to consider the name "Jehovah" as one of many names for God, instead of THE Name of the Father, which Jesus ivokes or alludes to and King David constantly extols in the Psalms.

What I find interesting are the weak reasons for omitting the name Jehovah. People don't seek to omit the name Zeus from the Bible. They don't hide any other name in the Bible. If we think about it for a second, shouldn't people ask themselves, 'why does this name get omitted'? Here's the real kicker, this is in every language! In every land this name is being omitted from Bibles and prayers. This is clear evidence that this is an organized effort. But why? How does knowing God's name hurt people? How does using the Divine Name work against them?

Then those that seek to make people forget that name start in with the weak answers to these questions. But, this is why tradition is warned about in the Bible. Because it is tradition that is the trampling God's name. Going all the way back to Jerusalem. It just keeps getting past on breaking language barriers, time barriers and religious barriers.

It goes back to when Jewish Rabbis with the best intentions put God's name "off limits". This to "build a fence around the Torah". The thinking went this way; if one never pronounces the name of God, one will never misuse the name of God..

This dispite the fact that King David pronounced the name of God over and over and over again, and encouraged others to do the same. Just read the Psalms in a translation which honors the Name of God, the NWT, ASV, Jerusalem Bible, etc. It is eye opening.

And unfortunately, the prohibition led to the conflation of "Lord" (master) with "LORD" (YHVH). And it conveniently served the purpose of Jesus-worship.

The prohibition also had the unintentional consequence of creating a vacum, and ironically, the name of Jesus filled that vacum and consolidated Jesus-worship. Litanies to the "Holy Name" (of Jesus) and "no higher name" and all that.

Even today, the RCC bows to the prohibition, in order not to offend the Jewish people. Sad, and needless. Especially when one remembers that the RCC published a translation (before Ratzinger/Benedict's Catholic prohibition) which honored the name of God, as "Yahweh", The Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem Bibles. I'm grateful to the Good LORD YHVH that I got my copy while it is still available.

Hopefully (God willing), the current Catholic prohibition is like a President's executive order, and will be overturned with the next administration. (Pope).