Revelation 2:8

[Wootah]

8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Q: Who is the First and Last?
A: God.

If God is the first and last and also died and came to life again isn't that Jesus.

How does anyone get around this scriptural interpretation?

[Monta]

8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Q: Who is the First and Last?
A: God.

If God is the first and last and also died and came to life again isn't that Jesus.

How does anyone get around this scriptural interpretation?

Confusion arises as we realize that God as He is in Himself can not walk on earth.
It would be like our sun above descending to earth - we'd all be singed to nothing.

Light and heat coming from the sun does not separate itself from its source,
Heavenly Light (the Word, the Truth) does not separate itself from its source:
'I come from the Father.'

When somebody addressed Jesus as good master, he said that no-one is good but God. The Word/Truth, is subservient to Good/ Love.
Truth is not true unless it comes from Love as its source.

Jesus' soul was the Divine of the Father, infinite and eternal,
while his physical body alone was Mary's son.

Mary's son certainly could not and did not claim to be God but when Timothy asked to see the Father, Jesus' replied: have I been so long with you....

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 97 by brianbbs67]

First thanks for the response,

second, let's take a closer look at your statement you made, "Yeshau said he would send a comforter, which we see as the Holy Spirit, which is the spirit of God, who passed over the waters of the earth way back in Genesis. The Spirit is not Christ".

two things,

#1. the Spirit of God is God. scripture, John 4:24a "God is a Spirit". first question to you, are you saying that God, who is Spirit have a Spirit? I don't believe so. the key word to understand here is "of". according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words defines, "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction. so when one say the Spirit of God, that's God himself, for God is a Spirit.

Yes God is spirit to us. So, this means you deny the trinity?


#2. the Spirit is JESUS. supportive scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".


The bible is clear, the Lord Jesus said in verse 18 "I WILL COME TO YOU".

and he did in "another" form his natural form, Spirit". see the word "Another" in verse 16, it's the Greek word, G243 Allos and it expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort.

to make it short for you, it's the SAME PERSON in another Form.

Christ returned in a different form and will come again. That doesn't show me he is the same as God.

Judas brought this point out when our Lord said, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him".

John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"

this is a GREAT question asked. listen to what the our Lord said, John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him".

"We" is plural. Denotes more than one...

STOP and THINK for a moment. if the Comforter is going to be send from the FATHER why would the FATHER come and abode or dwell in us when the Spirit is coming. the Lord Jesus just told us something that should rock the entire religious world. what the Lord Jesus just said is that the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, is the Father and the Son in a different, or "ANOTHER" form. meaning the Holy Spirit is the Son in flesh, and the Father without flesh.

How do we know this? remember our Lord said that he would pray for another comforter, and then said, "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you. and in verse 23 he said this. "and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him"

WE, OUR, but only the Holy Spirit came .... Right? ..... Right. so what is our Lord telling us? the Father and the Son is the Holy Spirit. remember the word "ANOTHER. the vine dictionary states, G243 allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort.

ANOTHER of the SAME "SORT" is the same person in a different form.

now, can we back this up? yes, Judas asked how he would manifest himself. the answer, Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance".


THIS IS HOW HE MANIFESTED HIMSELF. in the Spiritual Gifts, that's why he is called the comforter.

Again, christ will come again. He said he was sending the comforter. Why would he not say, I will come and comfort you?

but also he's called the advocate. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"

this word here "advocate" look up what it means.... you want be surprised.

+

Advocate is an easy enough word to understand

Another question, you have shown how Christ told and taught to not sin and thereby keep the law. Do you then keep the law? As sin is defined as transgression of the law. Therefore without the law there is no sin.

[onewithhim]

8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Q: Who is the First and Last?
A: God.

If God is the first and last and also died and came to life again isn't that Jesus.

How does anyone get around this scriptural interpretation?

Confusion arises as we realize that God as He is in Himself can not walk on earth.
It would be like our sun above descending to earth - we'd all be singed to nothing.

Light and heat coming from the sun does not separate itself from its source,
Heavenly Light (the Word, the Truth) does not separate itself from its source:
'I come from the Father.'

When somebody addressed Jesus as good master, he said that no-one is good but God. The Word/Truth, is subservient to Good/ Love.
Truth is not true unless it comes from Love as its source.

You have touched on something I have realized and have tried to share with others, that God Himself could not be contained on this speck of a planet in His vast universe. His literal presence would indeed reduce the planet to a cinder.

Jesus came to represent his Father, and he used God's power to perform his miracles. What he said was God's words, not his own.

"Jesus replied to [the Jews]: 'I displayed to you many fine works from the Father.'" (John 10:32)

"Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to you men I do not speak of my own originality; but the Father who remains in union with me is DOING HIS WORKS." (John 14:10)

[Monta]

[Replying to post 103 by onewithhim]


"You have touched on something I have realized and have tried to share with others, that God Himself could not be contained on this speck of a planet in His vast universe. His literal presence would indeed reduce the planet to a cinder. "

And yet He is in all things in order for them to exist. Omnipresent.
How can that be?

In creating the universe and man in it, God withdrew his infinity by degrees
same as we have atmospheres between us and the sun (or we'd be singed).
So Jesus body was human but his soul was the Divine of Jehovah.

[JehovahsWitness]

And yet He is in all things in order for them to exist. Omnipresent.
How can that be?

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jehovah is omnipresent because Jesus taught us that "Our Father art in HEAVEN". God lives in heaven with his angels he doesn't live on earth, he isn't in any church or temple because the bible says no house or temple could contain him.

I take it that when you say God is everywhere you don't mean God is literally in your sandwich, in your dog's feeding bowl and literally living inside your toilet. You must mean something else no?

JW

[Monta]

[Replying to post 105 by JehovahsWitness]

" God lives in heaven with his angels he doesn't live on earth, he isn't in any church or temple because the bible says no house or temple could contain him.

"I take it that when you say God is everywhere you don't mean God is literally in your sandwich, in your dog's feeding bowl and literally living inside your toilet. You must mean something else no?"

No house or temple can contain Him but apparently heaven does according to you.

As I said, He limited His infinity at creation and still does as we could not live if He did not. Take it to any extremes yu like. I can say I clean the toilets does not mean I use my fingers.

[JehovahsWitness]

No house or temple can contain Him but apparently heaven does according to you.

As I said, He limited His infinity at creation and still does as we could not live if He did not. Take it to any extremes yu like.

Well I was just asking you to clarify what you mean, do you not want to explain, I find it hard to believe you think you literally swallow and digest God because he's inside your salad. I find that idea ludrious, absolutely incredibly proposterous.

No house or temple can contain Him but apparently heaven does according to you.

Emphasis MINE

No, not "according to me" apparently heaven does according to you to Jesus, who said the following...

• MATTHEW 6:9
  "... our Father, who is in heaven" King James 2000 Bible

Jehovah's Witnesses believe "Our Father is in heaven".

JW