Diversified Oneness

[101G]

[dio9]

[Replying to post 28 by 101G]

So you are saying the holy scripture is a science book too. Really, John had at best a Copernican knowledge of science. Remember the story about Galileo and the forced recantation of his discoveries ?

Please explain how Jesus , born in time , 1 AD and died 30 Ad could have created the universe billions of years before?

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 29 by shnarkle]

that's your opinion, but the question still stands, "who made all things". so please address that question.

I presented Paul's position, not my own. Paul and John both point out that all things are made by "Christ"/"the word", and yet Paul is quite clear in pointing out that Christ is NOT God.

[101G]

[Replying to post 32 by shnarkle]

I presented Paul's position, not my own. Paul and John both point out that all things are made by "Christ"/"the word", and yet Paul is quite clear in pointing out that Christ is NOT God.


well the apostle Paul and John both testify that Jesus the Christ is God. the apostle Paul,
Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

Now, is not God the only Saviour? yes, Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour". and is not God invisable

let's see who the apostle Paul said is the SAVIOUR, Titus 2:10 "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things".

Let's answer the main question, who is the SAVIOUR? JESUS the Christ. that was easy. now if you have another saviour then you have two Gods.

But you might say, well Jesus the Christ is visible, not in the OT, listen, 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".

now, who ONLY has immortality? that's right the Lord Jesus, for only God have immorality. if anyone else have immorality then YOU have two Gods and one is false.

so your argument from the apostle position is incorrect, I suggest you re-examine your position.

but re-read this post for clarity.

[shnarkle]

well the apostle Paul and John both testify that Jesus the Christ is God.

No, they don't. You're the only one here who is testifying that Christ is God.

the apostle Paul,
Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

Nice try, but so far you've managed to show us that Paul is still distinguishing God from the things that are made. Nowhere in that passage does Paul claim that Jesus is God.

Now, is not God the only Saviour? yes, Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour". and is not God invisable

No one can see God, and yet again Paul is quick to point out that Christ is the "Icon of the invisible God" Guess what? An Icon isn't God. You're confusing an Idol with an Icon. Paul says that Christ is an "Icon" which BY DEFINITION cannot be God. You're thinking of an IDOL. You're making Christ an idol. Idols are worshipped AS GOD.

let's see who the apostle Paul said is the SAVIOUR, Titus 2:10 "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things".

And yet again, nowhere does Paul state that Christ is God.

Let's answer the main question, who is the SAVIOUR? JESUS the Christ. that was easy. now if you have another saviour then you have two Gods.

Here again, it is you who is making this claim to having two Gods. You have a father God and a son God. Paul says the father is God, NOT the son. Paul clearly states that Christ is Lord "BY WHOM are all things"

But you might say, well Jesus the Christ is visible

Yep, Paul says he's "the image of the invisible God"

not in the OT

Jesus wasn't even given his name until eight days after he was born. So Jesus couldn't have been around in the OT.

now, who ONLY has immortality? that's right the Lord Jesus, for only God have immorality.

False. The entire celestial host of heaven is immortal.

if anyone else have immorality then YOU have two Gods and one is false.

Non sequitur. All who are born again have immortality. Christ pointed out that "you are gods", and the scriptures cannot be changed.

so your argument from the apostle position is incorrect,

And yet it remains Paul's position. You haven't connected any dots so far. You haven't even addressed the fact that Paul and John both distinguish God and Christ. Paul states quite clearly that God is the origin of all that exists while Christ is the means by which all exist. John points out that "the word was WITH God"

I suggest you re-examine your position.

I would only suggest that you come up with some scripture that actually supports yours.

So far all you've managed to do is show passages that state God is savior, and passages that claim Christ is savior. From this you then conclude that Christ is God. Look, I can do the same thing all day long and come to the same false conclusions. Here's an example. Mustangs are Fords. Expeditions are Fords. Therefore Mustangs are Expeditions.

Here's another one: Fords are manufactured in Dearborn, Michigan. Fords are manufactured in a manufacturing plant. Fords originate in Dearborn by means of a manufacturing plant, and yet Dearborn is not a manufacturing plant, and the manufacturing plant is not Dearborn Michigan. Nonetheless, by your logic, Ford manufacturing plants are Dearborn Michigan.

Nevertheless, when you are in that manufacturing plant, you are in Dearboarn Michigan, and yet that manufacturing plant will never BE Dearboarn Michigan. That manufacturing plant will always BE a manufacturing plant. Dearborn Michigan will never BE a manufacturing plant. Do you see how and why the origin can never be the means? Do you see that the means of creation can never be the origin of creation? Do you see that Paul has defined God as the origin of creation? Do you see that he has NOT defined God as the means of creation? These are what are known in logic as a Given.


You're quite simply conflating "the word" with God as if that somehow proved that God's word is God. God exists in the word, but God isn't the word. The texts never state that God is the word. It is the word that exists eternally, and apart from the word there is no God. To then conclude that God is the word is a non sequitur.

[101G]

[Replying to post 34 by shnarkle]

first thanks for the reply., second you have no scripture to rebutt what I have posted.

#1. the scriptures states the fact that Jesus the Christ is God "Shared" in flesh. but you have no scripture to disproved this.

but I have scripture to support this fact. let's see if the scriptures is plain on this fact.

question, according to Revelation 1:1 who sent his Angel to John. listen, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John".

now shnarkle, who was it that sent "his" angel to John, was it the Father whom you call God or was it Jesus. but before you answer the question I suggest you read Revelation 22:6 first, because the angel who was sent to John while talking to John he tells us who sent him. so after you read Revelation 22:6 then tell us who sent his angel.

I'll be looking for your answer.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 34 by shnarkle]

first thanks for the reply., second you have no scripture to rebutt what I have posted.

I addressed and refuted what you've posted while you've essentially ignored the passages I've posted.

#1. the scriptures states the fact that Jesus the Christ is God "Shared" in flesh.

You haven't provided a single scripture to support this claim; not one.

but you have no scripture to disproved this.

Not only have I provided scripture, but you've ignored them repeatedly. Are you ever going to address any of them?

who was sent to John

An angel.

while talking to John he tells us who sent him. so after you read Revelation 22:6 then tell us who sent his angel.

I'll be looking for your answer.

Christ. It's always Christ. Christ is the mediator between God and humanity, therefore it will always be Christ. When you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father quite clearly points to the fact that Christ is the Icon of the invisible God. The Father doesn't reveal anything because the Father is transcendent. That was easy. Anything else? Care you respond to what I've already posted?

[101G]

as for proof, the scripture to support this claim of Jesus the Christ is God "Shared" in flesh.

well here is the first scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God".

do the research, and I'll help you out. the key word here beside "Equal" is the term "FORM", and when you search it out, you will find the "share" in the research.

so good luck.

[dio9]

What does it mean when John writes Jesus is the word, really , he is writing in a mythic sense. Writing for an audience familiar with a particular myth of salvation Gnostic Christians. That's the way they could understand Jesus' value . Jesus was the man God had in mind when he created Adam the original man the man who was the idea in God's mind from the beginning. It took billions of years for Jesus to appear but he was God's original idea of a human. So you could say Jesus was in the mind of God as an idea a logos from the beginning.

[shnarkle]

[101G]

Now for all those who are concerned with Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name".

the scripture answers itself. Remember it's the Lord God of the Holy prophets speaking. the my God is "HIM", how easy was that? he answers his own question with himself, "I will write upon him my new name". all the my's in that verse, that's the Lord Jesus the God of the holy prophets who sent HIS angel. the ETERNAL Spirit, (the Holy Spirit), the EVERLASTING Father in flesh (shared), the MIGHTY GOD, the Comforter, the prince of peace. that's JESUS, the LORD.