Show me the scripture

[dio9]

John 20:9 :
"For as yet they knew not the
scripture, that he must rise
again from the dead"

Can someone show me the scripture or scriptures that say the Messiah must rise again from the dead?

[Overcomer]

[JehovahsWitness]

John 20:9 :
"For as yet they knew not the
scripture, that he must rise
again from the dead"

Can someone show me the scripture or scriptures that say the Messiah must rise again from the dead?

PSALMS 16:10 - NWT
For you will not leave me in the Grave. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.

Contemporary English Version
I am your chosen one. You won't leave me in the grave or let my body decay.


This scripture has been linked to John's statement.


JW

[dio9]

[Replying to post 2 by Overcomer]

all that said how is it , even his disciples didn't get it? Was it only a revealed truth by the holy Spirit to believers? Clearly the Hebrew's expected and were looking for a warrior King Messiah. Someone like David who would restore Hebrew sovereignty.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 2 by Overcomer]

all that said how is it , even his disciples didn't get it? Was it only a revealed truth by the holy Spirit to believers? Clearly the Hebrew's expected and were looking for a warrior King Messiah. Someone like David who would restore Hebrew sovereignty.

I'm not so sure about that. There were those Jews who expected the Messiah to be as described at Isaiah 53, and Daniel 9:24-27. We know that Jesus was at odds with the religious leaders at that time, and that they wanted to kill him. Why do you suppose that they wanted to do that, knowing as they must have, that he had arrived right when the scriptures said he would? They were more concerned with their political position and their status among and above the people that they were supposed to spiritually shepherd. Jesus actually exposed them as greedy hypocrites (Matthew 23), and they said: "If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." (John 11:48, NASB)

So it was the religious leaders of the Jews that, fueled by greediness and political designs, strongly desired a warrior Messiah that would conquer the Romans and secure their place as powerful men in high places. The humble "common man" that the religious leaders despised looked for the kind of Messiah that Simeon and Anna were awaiting, as recorded at Luke 2:25-38.

[liamconnor]

John 20:9 :
"For as yet they knew not the
scripture, that he must rise
again from the dead"

Can someone show me the scripture or scriptures that say the Messiah must rise again from the dead?

There is no explicit, or even implicit statement in the Hebrew Bible suggesting the Messiah must rise again from the dead. If Jesus truly taught this, he was not obeying the rules of modern exegesis. But then, no ancient Jew obeyed the rules of modern exegesis. More than likely, Jesus drew upon various themes of the Bible, pieced them together, and then interpreted them. The interpretation is highly subjective: that is, a modern day seminary student would get a big fat F if he treated the Bible as Jesus did.

[JehovahsWitness]

... a modern day seminary student would get a big fat F if he treated the Bible as Jesus did.

It seems readers would then have to choose between following pattern of scriptural teaching as established by the Son of God and foundation of Christian faith, God's chief messenger, the means by which everlasting life can be attained and arguably the greatest man the ever lived ... or being a successful modern day seminary student.

Hmmm, which to choose? ... which to choose?!!

MATTHEW 7: 28-29
When Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds were astounded at his way of teaching, for he was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes.

LUKE 4:22
And they all began to give favorable witness about him and to be amazed at the gracious words coming out of his mouth

JOHN 7:46
The officers replied: “Never has any man spoken like this

JW

[Elijah John]

John 20:9 :
"For as yet they knew not the
scripture, that he must rise
again from the dead"

Can someone show me the scripture or scriptures that say the Messiah must rise again from the dead?

PSALMS 16:10 - NWT
For you will not leave me in the Grave. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.

Contemporary English Version
I am your chosen one. You won't leave me in the grave or let my body decay.


This scripture has been linked to John's statement.


JW

Ah...John's statement. As in perhaps John put this interpretive statement on Jesus lips as well? . It wouldn't be the first time...

But I have to say, the verse from Psalms that you cite is probably the best verse the apologist can cite to make the case, though it seems quite a stretch.

This is yet another example of where the apologist cites as "prophecy" something that is not from prophetic literature. Remember, the Psalms are basically prayers and songs.

Do those songs and prayers occasionaly contain prophetic type statements? Perhaps. Theological truths? More often, more likely. Poetic expressions of the Psalmist's heart towards God? Almost always.

Most likely explanation for what "Jesus" said here? It probably came from John himself based on John's understanding of who Jesus was, and his belief that it sounded like something that Jesus would probably mean if not actually said.

Woven together from various passages and OT themes, as Liam points out. I would agree but I would say that it was John who put the statement on Jesus lips as a reference to a specific but non-existent passage.

We moderns would probably call it "taking poetic license" to put it charitably.

If that is not the case, can you cite a more applicable passage? I don't think the reference from Pslams is very convincing.

Don't you think the disciples too could be excused for having missed it?

[onewithhim]

... a modern day seminary student would get a big fat F if he treated the Bible as Jesus did.

It seems readers would then have to choose between following pattern of scriptural teaching as established by the Son of God and foundation of Christian faith, God's chief messenger, the means by which everlasting life can be attained and arguably the greatest man the ever lived ... or being a successful modern day seminary student.

Hmmm, which to choose? ... which to choose?!!

MATTHEW 7: 28-29
When Jesus finished these sayings, the effect was that the crowds were astounded at his way of teaching, for he was teaching them as a person having authority, and not as their scribes.

LUKE 4:22
And they all began to give favorable witness about him and to be amazed at the gracious words coming out of his mouth

JOHN 7:46
The officers replied: “Never has any man spoken like this

JW

Indeed. What seminary students learn is often a far cry from what Jesus taught. Now, why would someone give Jesus "a big fat F"?

[onewithhim]

John 20:9 :
"For as yet they knew not the
scripture, that he must rise
again from the dead"

Can someone show me the scripture or scriptures that say the Messiah must rise again from the dead?

PSALMS 16:10 - NWT
For you will not leave me in the Grave. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.

Contemporary English Version
I am your chosen one. You won't leave me in the grave or let my body decay.


This scripture has been linked to John's statement.


JW

Ah...John's statement. As in perhaps John put this interpretive statement on Jesus lips as well? . It wouldn't be the first time...

But I have to say, the verse from Psalms that you cite is probably the best verse the apologist can cite to make the case, though it seems quite a stretch.

This is yet another example of where the apologist cites as "prophecy" something that is not from prophetic literature. Remember, the Psalms are basically prayers and songs.

Do those songs and prayers occasionaly contain prophetic type statements? Perhaps. Theological truths? More often, more likely. Poetic expressions of the Psalmist's heart towards God? Almost always.

Most likely explanation for what "Jesus" said here? It probably came from John himself based on John's understanding of who Jesus was, and his belief that it sounded like something that Jesus would probably mean if not actually said.

Woven together from various passages and OT themes, as Liam points out. I would agree but I would say that it was John who put the statement on Jesus lips as a reference to a specific but non-existent passage.

We moderns would probably call it "taking poetic license" to put it charitably.

If that is not the case, can you cite a more applicable passage? I don't think the reference from Pslams is very convincing.

Don't you think the disciples too could be excused for having missed it?

Isaiah 53 is a no-brainer. It shows very plainly what the Messiah would be like. Many Psalms relate to the Messiah, as the disciples discerned. Peter applied Psalm 16:10 and Psalm 110:1 to Jesus at Acts 2:27,31 and 34,35.