Who is responsible?

[Peds nurse]

Imagine that a car manufacturing company, made the standard cars that we all drive today. It is equipped with a manual that tells the driver how to use the car efficiently. Although the car is equipped to engage in speeds of 120 miles per hour, the manual cautions the driver of the hazards of driving at such speeds.

Question for debate. Should the manufacturing company be held liable for people getting into accidents and sometimes causing death by driving at speeds not recommended?

I think we can translate this to the spiritual realm. Why should God be held accountable for people who make faulty decisions with their life, sometimes hurting or killing others?

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 36 by ttruscott]

The evil men do is to open the ears of those who can hear the difference between the sinful people of the kingdom from the people of the evil one to cause repentance and acceptance of the judgement.

The rest of your post made sense, but I got stuck and had to read this last sentence a few times. I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying here. If I read it correctly, you're saying that the sinful people of the kingdom are distinguished from the people of the evil one, and this distinction causes repentance by those who are able to distinguish between the two? Are you saying that they accept that they are judged as righteous, or condemned?

What category do these witnesses fall into? Is it one or the other, or possible to be from either category?

[William]

[Replying to post 39 by bluethread]

Ok, one set of people thinks that their deity is blameless and another thinks that their deity is to blame.

I did not argue that, nor would I.

Apart from that, how are these two groups different?

There are not just 2 groups, and I would say the differences are merely cosmetic.


My own theology focuses on solution and in that - reconciliation/reintegration/rehabilitation - involves understanding that while blame for the predicament is helpful, it is only helpful in relation to its links with personal responsibility. The Earth Entity is doing Her part therein, whatever name one prefers to call Her by. Knowing Her is another thing entirely.

The idea of settling for blame is no solution. Yes I am responsible for my part of the problem and by acknowledging that, I am thus enabled to be part of the solution. Otherwise I am still part of the problem.

[Peds nurse]

Imagine that a car manufacturing company, made the standard cars that we all drive today. It is equipped with a manual that tells the driver how to use the car efficiently. Although the car is equipped to engage in speeds of 120 miles per hour, the manual cautions the driver of the hazards of driving at such speeds.

Question for debate. Should the manufacturing company be held liable for people getting into accidents and sometimes causing death by driving at speeds not recommended?

I think we can translate this to the spiritual realm. Why should God be held accountable for people who make faulty decisions with their life, sometimes hurting or killing others?

Let's say then that no law enforcement occurs for dangerous speeding, even in school zones. Kids sometimes get run over. The government doesn't condone speeding, but for whatever reason it does nothing to stop it even though it easily could. The citizens complain saying that it's the government's fault in addition to the speeder's. They say the government should intervene because it has the power to stop the bad acts and prevent suffering.

What do you make of this?

Could the government stop the speeding from occurring? It seems that they could only discipline those that do speed.

[marco]

Still rejecting the doctrine of Adam and Eve being sinners in the garden, eh? Does it not fit your resistance against YHWH so well?

I don't believe that allocating names to two fictitious neanderthals, or whatever they were, constitutes a doctrine. The word is derived from "docere" meaning to teach. It is sorely abused when applied to the putative first two people.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 39 by bluethread]

Ok, one set of people thinks that their deity is blameless and another thinks that their deity is to blame.

I did not argue that, nor would I.

Apart from that, how are these two groups different?

There are not just 2 groups, and I would say the differences are merely cosmetic.

Stop byfurcating my posts so that you can mischaracterized them and then bloviate about things unrelated to the issue I am addressing. It doesn't matter how many groups there are. What is the difference between one who blames a deity and one who does not, aparts from the obvious fact that one blames a deity and the other does not?

[shnarkle]

Imagine that a car manufacturing company, made the standard cars that we all drive today. It is equipped with a manual that tells the driver how to use the car efficiently. Although the car is equipped to engage in speeds of 120 miles per hour, the manual cautions the driver of the hazards of driving at such speeds.

Question for debate. Should the manufacturing company be held liable for people getting into accidents and sometimes causing death by driving at speeds not recommended?

I think we can translate this to the spiritual realm. Why should God be held accountable for people who make faulty decisions with their life, sometimes hurting or killing others?

Let's say then that no law enforcement occurs for dangerous speeding, even in school zones. Kids sometimes get run over. The government doesn't condone speeding, but for whatever reason it does nothing to stop it even though it easily could. The citizens complain saying that it's the government's fault in addition to the speeder's. They say the government should intervene because it has the power to stop the bad acts and prevent suffering.

What do you make of this?

Could the government stop the speeding from occurring? It seems that they could only discipline those that do speed.

They can tear up the roads and freeways, they can outlaw cars that go more than 5 mph. They can require that all engines be governed to not exceed 5 mph.

[2timothy316]

Imagine that a car manufacturing company, made the standard cars that we all drive today. It is equipped with a manual that tells the driver how to use the car efficiently. Although the car is equipped to engage in speeds of 120 miles per hour, the manual cautions the driver of the hazards of driving at such speeds.

Question for debate. Should the manufacturing company be held liable for people getting into accidents and sometimes causing death by driving at speeds not recommended?

I think we can translate this to the spiritual realm. Why should God be held accountable for people who make faulty decisions with their life, sometimes hurting or killing others?

Let's say then that no law enforcement occurs for dangerous speeding, even in school zones. Kids sometimes get run over. The government doesn't condone speeding, but for whatever reason it does nothing to stop it even though it easily could. The citizens complain saying that it's the government's fault in addition to the speeder's. They say the government should intervene because it has the power to stop the bad acts and prevent suffering.

Could the government stop the speeding from occurring? It seems that they could only discipline those that do speed.

Discipline means 'to correct'. The million dollar questions is: how do we 'correct' someone that doesn't want to be corrected? More education? More laws? More fines and jail time?

The answer is clear. What would stop kids from being ran over? More laws or no speeders. The one you chose is the one to blame. Because with no speeders there is no need to use their power to stop it.

[2timothy316]

Imagine that a car manufacturing company, made the standard cars that we all drive today. It is equipped with a manual that tells the driver how to use the car efficiently. Although the car is equipped to engage in speeds of 120 miles per hour, the manual cautions the driver of the hazards of driving at such speeds.

Question for debate. Should the manufacturing company be held liable for people getting into accidents and sometimes causing death by driving at speeds not recommended?

I think we can translate this to the spiritual realm. Why should God be held accountable for people who make faulty decisions with their life, sometimes hurting or killing others?

Let's say then that no law enforcement occurs for dangerous speeding, even in school zones. Kids sometimes get run over. The government doesn't condone speeding, but for whatever reason it does nothing to stop it even though it easily could. The citizens complain saying that it's the government's fault in addition to the speeder's. They say the government should intervene because it has the power to stop the bad acts and prevent suffering.

What do you make of this?

Could the government stop the speeding from occurring? It seems that they could only discipline those that do speed.

They can tear up the roads and freeways, they can outlaw cars that go more than 5 mph. They can require that all engines be governed to not exceed 5 mph.

So if we move this to the human condition than to stop wrong doing all people should have the intelligence of an ant? That is, not smart enough to do wrong...a lobotomy?

[Peds nurse]

If it is faulty, then the designer has a great responsibility regarding that. If it is not faulty but purposefully designed that way, then the designer still shares the responsibility. There is no escaping this. If there is a designer, then the designer shares the responsibility.

If you are saying that it is God is responsible for making us thinking people who can choose to follow His directions or be rebellious of them...okay.

I do understand that Christian theology has evolved over the centuries in a way which attempts to separate the designer from the responsibility of the design, but that is just something the supporters of Christendom are responsible for in relation to any damage done in the world on account of that. Ignorance is and will be no defense/excuse.

God did not give us thought to rebel. His gave us thought so that we would choose Him, that we would love and trust Him and walk with Him. It is how it all began in the garden...walking with God. Love can not be demanded. It has to be chosen.

While looking for places in which to allocate blame, does the job of fixing anything ever really get done?

I agree with your statement with blame, but all to often I see where people are blaming God for the state of our world. Perhaps that is why nothing is getting done to improve it?

That is one major reason. The other major reason is people are blaming people for the state of the world. Other people, not themselves.
Another major reason why not much is getting done is that millions of people believe that the worlds problems will not be solved until Jesus returns and does so. Related to that, millions of people believe that the earth is Satan's domain, and so there is little concern with the state it is in, as these people believe their destiny awaits them in a heavenly realm.

I will be the first to say that Christians often times make it difficult to see or do God's work in the world. We can be a rather judgmental, hard nosed and stiff necked people.

However, I believe that it is His great love in me, that spurs me to love His creation dearly. That is a place to start.

[Peds nurse]

What happened to post 3 by Steve?