JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[polonius]

The Gospel of John was written between 90 and 100 BC, or 60 to 70 years after Jesus' death evidently by a non-witness.

John 14:6 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It’s as nice saying except that Jesus probably never said it. If He did he seems to be excluding Jews from heaven.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historica ... he_Gospels

“Historians subject the gospels to critical analysis, attempting to differentiate, rather than authenticate, reliable information from possible inventions, exaggerations, and alterations.[1] Since there are more textual variants in the New Testament (200-400 thousand) than it has letters (c. 140 thousand),[23] scholars use textual criticism to determine which gospel variants could theoretically be taken as 'original'. To answer this question, scholars have to ask who wrote the gospels, when they wrote them, what was their objective in writing them,[24] what sources the authors used, how reliable these sources were, and how far removed in time the sources were from the stories they narrate, or if they were altered later.�

Note: For example, the Gospel according to John, written about 65 years after Jesus’ death, reports that Jesus was crucified on the Day of Preparation rather than the Passover and does not report any Eucharist instituted at the Last Supper.

John is identified with the “Beloved Disciple� but there is no evidence that he was rather than, say, Lazarus. The Gospel of John is unsigned.

The American Bible Introduction to the Gospel of John

“The fourth gospel is not simply history; the narrative has been organized and adapted to serve the evangelist’s theological purposes as well. Among them are the opposition to the synagogue of the day and to John the Baptist’s followers, who tried to exalt their master at Jesus’ expense, the desire to show that Jesus was the Messiah, and the desire to convince Christians that their religious belief and practice must be rooted in Jesus. Such theological purposes have impelled the evangelist to emphasize motifs that were not so clear in the synoptic account of Jesus’ ministry, e.g., the explicit emphasis on his divinity.�

[Tcg]

Jesus is indeed the prophecied "Prince of Peace" that will rule in a government.

That's an odd claim. The last thing Jesus did was float up into the sky. He hasn't done anything since then and certainly hasn't been a king nor a queen nor even a president. Not even a vice president where he would be next in line in case someone died.

I'm pretty sure that you can't claim a prophecy valid until, you know, that prophecy actually happens. I guess we'll just have to wait (as always) and see.

[JehovahsWitness]

I guess we'll just have to wait (as always) and see.

I can certainly see where you are coming from.

And yes, the ultimate verification of prophecy is its fulfillment.

Other than that we are talking about faith.


JW

[JehovahsWitness]

So, yes, we should follow Christ's example. What did he do? What did he instruct us to do? How did he tell us to live? That should be our focus.

Yes, but where would we access this kind of information? Secular history books contain scant information abut what jesus did or said and less about any instructions he may or may not have left.


JW

[polonius]

JW[/quote]

I can certainly see where you are coming from.

And yes, the ultimate verification of prophecy is its fulfillment.

Other than that we are talking about faith.

RESPONSES:


"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." Mark Twain.

"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." Richard Dawkins

"Faith is an absolutely marvelous tool. With faith there is no belief that cannot be justified". Rev. Donald Morgan (b. 1933), Atheist theologian

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_and_rationality

Broadly speaking, there are two categories of views regarding the relationship between faith and rationality:

Rationalism holds that truth should be determined by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma, tradition or religious teaching.

Fideism holds that faith is necessary, and that beliefs may be held without any evidence or reason and even in conflict with evidence and reason.

[JehovahsWitness]

Broadly speaking, there are two categories of views regarding the relationship between faith and rationality:

Rationalism holds that truth should be determined by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma, tradition or religious teaching.

Fideism holds that faith is necessary, and that beliefs may be held without any evidence or reason and even in conflict with evidence and reason.

Interesting. Yes I would agree there are indeed various views on this topic you are right.

Thanks for sharing.


JW

[Tcg]

And yes, the ultimate verification of prophecy is its fulfillment.

Given that it hasn't been fulfilled, you claim of victory is premature. If it had been fulfilled, you wouldn't need faith.

[JehovahsWitness]

And yes, the ultimate verification of prophecy is its fulfillment.

Given that it hasn't been fulfilled, you claim of victory is premature. If it had been fulfilled, you wouldn't need faith.

No I make no "claim of victory" I simply say what I believe, statements of faith. As one of Jehovah's Witneses I state what I believe.



Have a most excellent day,


JW

[Tcg]

And yes, the ultimate verification of prophecy is its fulfillment.

Given that it hasn't been fulfilled, you claim of victory is premature. If it had been fulfilled, you wouldn't need faith.

No I make no "claim of victory"...

Actually, you did. In posts 434.

Perhaps you haven't read it.

[JehovahsWitness]

And yes, the ultimate verification of prophecy is its fulfillment.

Given that it hasn't been fulfilled, you claim of victory is premature. If it had been fulfilled, you wouldn't need faith.

No I make no "claim of victory"...

Actually, you did. In posts 434.

Perhaps you haven't read it.

Okay well if I did it was a statement of faith. Please take all my statements on this forum to be statements of FAITH simply what I believe to be true.


Thanks,

JW