"Thanks to the blood of Christ

[Elijah John]

A preacher on TBN said yesterday,

Thanks to the blood of Christ, his Father becomes our Father.

Didn't Jesus teach his listeners to call God " our Father" even before "the blood" was part of the equation?

So is it really "Thanks to the blood of Christ" that God is Father? Or is God "Father" whether or not Jesus died to "pay for" our sins?

Are we children of God through faith that this is so? Or only because we are adopted by virtue of the "blood of Christ"?

[brianbbs67]

Just to add to this. Here is the original Lord's prayer, before additions and copyist input:(in English)

Father,

Hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
Give us, each day,
our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.

Nothing special. Just a template on how to address the Lord.

[Elijah John]

Just to add to this. Here is the original Lord's prayer, before additions and copyist input:(in English)

Father,

Hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
Give us, each day,
our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.

Nothing special. Just a template on how to address the Lord.

Instead of "nothing special" I would say "nothing highly theological".

Notice even in the original, Jesus teaches the listener to address God as "Father" and to recieve his forgiveness without any notion of being "washed in the blood".

Neither of those things, the Fatherhood or God or the forgiveness of sins, is contingent upon believing in Pauline notions of blood atonement/adoption.

Do we really need the theologian Paul to interpret Jesus for us, when Jesus himself speaks so clearly, so simply and so plainly?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]

By saying nothing special, I don't detract from it. It was a Template for all to use. Vain repetetions don't appeal to the Father. Yet, this is what happens in churches everywhere , every Sunday. i think the message is be humble before the Lord and speak from your heart as you would to your earthly father.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]

By saying nothing special, I don't detract from it. It was a Template for all to use. Vain repetetions don't appeal to the Father. Yet, this is what happens in churches everywhere , every Sunday. i think the message is be humble before the Lord and speak from your heart as you would to your earthly father.

Understood. What about the supposed necessity of the "blood of Christ" in facilitating adoption, when Jesus seems to have taught God as Father even before the issue of "the blood" was ever a doctrine?

Do we need Paul and his notions of blood atonement to interpret Christ for us when it is pretty clear Jesus preached God as Father before he was ever even tried or crucified, and never tied that Father-child of God relationship for his disciples to the crucifixion?

[Monta]

Just to add to this. Here is the original Lord's prayer, before additions and copyist input:(in English)

Father,

Hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
Give us, each day,
our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.

Nothing special. Just a template on how to address the Lord.

Where does this original come from?

Prayer is something is you pray, ask for? Communication?

[dio9]

Paul wrote , we are saved by faith. He didn't say we are saved by the shedding of Christ's blood. We believe God is our father by faith in Jesus' teaching.

[2timothy316]

Paul wrote , we are saved by faith. He didn't say we are saved by the shedding of Christ's blood. We believe God is our father by faith in Jesus' teaching.

“Since we have been declared righteous now by his blood, shall we be saved through him from wrath.� —Romans 5:9

That is how lasting life can be saved by blood.

[brianbbs67]

Just to add to this. Here is the original Lord's prayer, before additions and copyist input:(in English)

Father,

Hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.
Give us, each day,
our daily bread.
Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.
And lead us not into temptation.

Nothing special. Just a template on how to address the Lord.

Where does this original come from?

Prayer is something is you pray, ask for? Communication?

Roughly it is Luke 11:2-4 minus all the additions by scribes. The NKJ shows in footnotes most of the language I deleted. I got the message I posted from a direct greek translation which you can find anywhere.

Yes, prayer is communication . God wishes our conversation, not repetition.

[brianbbs67]

Also, blood sacrifice was how Isreal lived to attain atonement for their sins. Christ was The blood sacrifice that ended the need for Temple sacrifice. Thus, we entered a New Covenant with God(those who accept and follow it). Which He said over and over(OT) would be different than the one with Isreal.

[Elijah John]

Also, blood sacrifice was how Isreal lived to attain atonement for their sins. Christ was The blood sacrifice that ended the need for Temple sacrifice. Thus, we entered a New Covenant with God(those who accept and follow it). Which He said over and over(OT) would be different than the one with Isreal.

Seems the prophets of Israel did not get the memo. They envisioned a YHVH who was above sacrifice. See Micah 6.6-8, Hosea 6.6, Mark 12.33, Jeremiah 7.20-23, etc. Blood sacrifice was a superflous vestige of a barbaric past.