Did Christ have free will?

[brianbbs67]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

[EBA]

[Replying to post 128 by EBA]

Simply put you are arguing that free will does not exist.

In that, you are saying Jesus had no free will, and nor does anyone else.

The OP was not taking that particular position and I am arguing in the spirit of the OP, that free will does exist. Your interpretation of free will is different from my own, that is all.

In that, there is no particular reason to argue about interpretations which are diametrically opposed.

Fair enough. May I ask why you think it is so important that Jesus possess free will?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 128 by EBA]

Simply put you are arguing that free will does not exist.

In that, you are saying Jesus had no free will, and nor does anyone else.

The OP was not taking that particular position and I am arguing in the spirit of the OP, that free will does exist. Your interpretation of free will is different from my own, that is all.

In that, there is no particular reason to argue about interpretations which are diametrically opposed.

Fair enough. May I ask why you think it is so important that Jesus possess free will?

I think it is important because God is showing us we can do it. In other words, man, in general, thinks it can't be perfect. Christ showed that man could. Lesson learned. But, can we really? IDK. I have tried to be perfect. It is burdomsom;) but I try still.

[ttruscott]

Thank you; you just proved that you cannot make a choice without cause.

James 1:14But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. 15Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is fully grown, it gives birth to death. teaches that our evil desires cause us to sin, ie, to choose evil.

Having a reason to choose one over another is not called a cause.


inl=fluence

Being placed in a position where ones choices are limited - even if the choice is life or death, one still has free will.

Yeah, again, that statement is just contradictory.

You can say that, but it is up to you to explain why you think it is contradictory.

free
adjective, adverb US ​ /fri/
free adjective, adverb (NOT LIMITED) (Emphasis mine)

[ -er/-est only ] not limited or controlled: (Emphasis mine)

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... glish/free[/quote]

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 128 by EBA]

Simply put you are arguing that free will does not exist.

In that, you are saying Jesus had no free will, and nor does anyone else.

The OP was not taking that particular position and I am arguing in the spirit of the OP, that free will does exist. Your interpretation of free will is different from my own, that is all.

In that, there is no particular reason to argue about interpretations which are diametrically opposed.

Fair enough. May I ask why you think it is so important that Jesus possess free will?

I think it is important because God is showing us we can do it. In other words, man, in general, thinks it can't be perfect. Christ showed that man could. Lesson learned. But, can we really? IDK. I have tried to be perfect. It is burdomsom;) but I try still.

Do not worry about trying to be perfect now. The Bible says all of have sinned and while under the world conditions we are in we will all sin again. Even if Jesus is the example has set is bar for us and yet we can can't reach that bar yet, the closer we get to his footsteps the better it is for our hearts, spirits and minds. It also gives hope that when sin is removed from us the kind of people we will be able to be.

Physical example: I cannot run as fast Usain Bolt. However, jogging and running is good for my heart, spirit and mind. I know I'll never be able to achieve the speeds Bolt does on my own. But that doesn't discourage me from running. Nor should we be discouraged for all the good following Jesus' example does for us in our lives. 1 John 5:3, which states: “This is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome.� The Bible says that trying to be like Jesus is not the real goal but to observe God's commandments and those commandments shouldn't feel like a burden. So if we do feel a burden then we need to ask ourselves, 'if I'm feeling burdened and the Bible says that I should be burdened, then what exactly am I following?'

[William]

[Replying to post 131 by EBA]

Fair enough. May I ask why you think it is so important that Jesus possess free will?

No, because it does not matter, given you think free will does not exist...for anyone.

[2timothy316]

So if we do feel a burden then we need to ask ourselves, 'if I'm feeling burdened and the Bible says that I should be burdened, then what exactly am I following?'

The Bible says that 'we should not be burdened'...oops! Edit window lapsed.

[tam]

[Replying to post 128 by EBA]

Simply put you are arguing that free will does not exist.

In that, you are saying Jesus had no free will, and nor does anyone else.

The OP was not taking that particular position and I am arguing in the spirit of the OP, that free will does exist. Your interpretation of free will is different from my own, that is all.

In that, there is no particular reason to argue about interpretations which are diametrically opposed.

Fair enough. May I ask why you think it is so important that Jesus possess free will?

I think it is important because God is showing us we can do it. In other words, man, in general, thinks it can't be perfect. Christ showed that man could. Lesson learned. But, can we really? IDK. I have tried to be perfect. It is burdomsom;) but I try still.

You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same? Be perfect, therefore, as your Heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:45-48

Christ would not have told us to do something if it were impossible for us to do. But being perfect does not mean that we will never sin. We all sin (err) and fall short. Being perfect, as Christ has told us to be perfect here, is to love our enemies. To pray for those who persecute us. To love those who do not love us.

In doing so, we may be sons of our Father in heaven.


If we are in Christ, then we have Christ to cover us where and when we fall short. Love also covers over a multitude of sins, does it not? (1Peter 4:8; Proverbs 10:12)


I'm not saying loving your enemies is always the easiest thing to do; but that is what we are to do if we are to be sons of our Father in heaven; if we are to be perfect (in love) as God is perfect. And did Christ not say that it is those who love Him who will keep His commands? Sure, we might need to ask Him for help sometimes to do this. But THIS - loving your enemies (as well as your friends) - is being perfect as God is perfect.


Love God with your WHOLE heart, mind, soul.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Love your enemies.



Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[EBA]

[Replying to post 128 by EBA]

Fair enough. May I ask why you think it is so important that Jesus possess free will?

I think it is important because God is showing us we can do it. In other words, man, in general, thinks it can't be perfect. Christ showed that man could. Lesson learned. But, can we really? IDK. I have tried to be perfect. It is burdomsom;) but I try still.

Hello brianbbs67,
When you come to the realization that you have no free will, and understand that it is God who directs your steps, your burden may seem a bit lighter.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Phi 2:13)

God Bless.

[EBA]

[Replying to post 131 by EBA]

Fair enough. May I ask why you think it is so important that Jesus possess free will?

No, because it does not matter, given you think free will does not exist...for anyone.

And neither do you. You believe in limited free will, and as long as your will is limited it ain't free.

[EBA]

The Bible says all of have sinned and while under the world conditions we are in we will all sin again.

Should't we be able to avoid sin if we have free will?

Peace.