A comparison between "faith" and reason

[polonius]

Wikipedia presents the simplest comparison between reason and faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_and_rationality

“Faith and rationality are two ideologies that exist in varying degrees of conflict or compatibility.

Rationality is based on reason or facts. Faith is belief in inspiration, revelation, or authority.

The word faith sometimes refers to a belief that is held with lack of reason or evidence, a belief that is held in spite of or against reason or evidence, or it can refer to belief based upon a degree of evidential warrant.�

Broadly speaking, there are two categories of views regarding the relationship between faith and rationality:

1. Rationalism holds that truth should be determined by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma, tradition or religious teaching.

2. Fideism holds that faith is necessary and that beliefs may be held without any evidence or reason and even in conflict with evidence and reason.�


Opinions?

[ttruscott]

RESPONSE: If it is "Faith with evidence" is not faith. If there is evidence, it is no long faith (without evidence).

How do you prove this? Faith is hope based upon the evidence for how can one hope for what they have never heard of or conceived of? We are not likely to put our faith in Blxfiss from NIFtimble are we? Or rather, we should have faith in __________ of _______ which cannot be named as that would constitute evidence!

How could there be faith that YHWH was telling us the truth about reality if there was no bible, no gospel, no stories about Christ, no Church testimony, no believer's witness to the changed character of the repentant? Your dog is up the wrong tree, methinks.

Anyway, scripture says: Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. and if we are not hearing evidence, then are we just hearing the wind?

[polonius]

TTruscott posted:

How do you prove this? Faith is hope based upon the evidence for how can one hope for what they have never heard of or conceived of?

RESPONSE: What one hears of or conceives of is not evidence of its actual existence. It can be pure wishful thinking although a religious belief.

if we are not hearing evidence, then are we just hearing the wind?

RESPONSE: If there is not factual evidence, that's about the size of it.

For example, in some of the eastern religions it is believed that the earth is held up by four elephants riding on the back of a large tortoise. Do you have "faith" in this belief? Many do.

From Wikipedia:

The World Turtle (also referred to as the Cosmic Turtle, the World-bearing Turtle, or the Divine Turtle) is a mytheme of a giant turtle (or tortoise) supporting or containing the world. The mytheme, which is similar to that of the World Elephant and World Serpent, occurs in Hindu mythology, Chinese mythology and the mythologies of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. The "World-Tortoise" mytheme was discussed comparatively by Edward Burnett Tylor (1878:341).

It is a matter of faith and believed in by many people. Are you one of them?

[ThePainefulTruth]

Wikipedia presents the simplest comparison between reason and faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_and_rationality

“Faith and rationality are two ideologies that exist in varying degrees of conflict or compatibility.

Rationality is based on reason or facts. Faith is belief in inspiration, revelation, or authority.

The word faith sometimes refers to a belief that is held with lack of reason or evidence, a belief that is held in spite of or against reason or evidence, or it can refer to belief based upon a degree of evidential warrant.�

Broadly speaking, there are two categories of views regarding the relationship between faith and rationality:

1. Rationalism holds that truth should be determined by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma, tradition or religious teaching.

2. Fideism holds that faith is necessary and that beliefs may be held without any evidence or reason and even in conflict with evidence and reason.�


Opinions?

Your examples above are of blind faith, that is, faith not guided by reason. All revealed religions necessitate blind faith because belief in the supernatural is totally founded on ancient hearsay. But faith is the emotional engine that motivates us to follow our desires, but it must be guided by reason. To paraphrase Einstein, faith without reason is blind, and reason without faith is dead.

I use a ship analogy. Reason must be at the controls guiding the ship, while faith complying with reason is the engine which provides the motivation, the power. Without the guidance of reason, the ship ends up on the rocks or is otherwise lost, and without faith, the ship is dead in the water.

[polonius]

Wikipedia presents the simplest comparison between reason and faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_and_rationality

“Faith and rationality are two ideologies that exist in varying degrees of conflict or compatibility.

Rationality is based on reason or facts. Faith is belief in inspiration, revelation, or authority.

The word faith sometimes refers to a belief that is held with lack of reason or evidence, a belief that is held in spite of or against reason or evidence, or it can refer to belief based upon a degree of evidential warrant.�

Broadly speaking, there are two categories of views regarding the relationship between faith and rationality:

1. Rationalism holds that truth should be determined by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma, tradition or religious teaching.

2. Fideism holds that faith is necessary and that beliefs may be held without any evidence or reason and even in conflict with evidence and reason.�


Opinions?

Your examples above are of blind faith, that is, faith not guided by reason. All revealed religions necessitate blind faith because belief in the supernatural is totally founded on ancient hearsay. But faith is the emotional engine that motivates us to follow our desires, but it must be guided by reason. To paraphrase Einstein, faith without reason is blind, and reason without faith is dead.

I use a ship analogy. Reason must be at the controls guiding the ship, while faith complying with reason is the engine which provides the motivation, the power. Without the guidance of reason, the ship ends up on the rocks or is otherwise lost, and without faith, the ship is dead in the water.

RESPONSE: I use common sense.

First, truth should be determined by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma, tradition or religious teaching. Faith can yield many errors. Historically, this has always been true.

[polonius]

Wikipedia presents the simplest comparison between reason and faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_and_rationality

“Faith and rationality are two ideologies that exist in varying degrees of conflict or compatibility.

Rationality is based on reason or facts. Faith is belief in inspiration, revelation, or authority.

The word faith sometimes refers to a belief that is held with lack of reason or evidence, a belief that is held in spite of or against reason or evidence, or it can refer to belief based upon a degree of evidential warrant.�

Broadly speaking, there are two categories of views regarding the relationship between faith and rationality:

1. Rationalism holds that truth should be determined by reason and factual analysis, rather than faith, dogma, tradition or religious teaching.

2. Fideism holds that faith is necessary and that beliefs may be held without any evidence or reason and even in conflict with evidence and reason.�


Opinions?

Your examples above are of blind faith, that is, faith not guided by reason. All revealed religions necessitate blind faith because belief in the supernatural is totally founded on ancient hearsay. But faith is the emotional engine that motivates us to follow our desires, but it must be guided by reason. To paraphrase Einstein, faith without reason is blind, and reason without faith is dead.

I use a ship analogy. Reason must be at the controls guiding the ship, while faith complying with reason is the engine which provides the motivation, the power. Without the guidance of reason, the ship ends up on the rocks or is otherwise lost, and without faith, the ship is dead in the water.

There are many examples of being guided by "faith" rather than "reason." This one is a classic example from 1615:

"We say, pronounce, sentence, and declare that you, the said Galileo, by reason of the matters adduced in trial, and by you confessed as above, have rendered yourself in the judgment of this Holy Office vehemently suspected of heresy, namely, of having believed and held the doctrine—which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures—that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world; and that an opinion may be held and defended as probably after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to the Holy Scripture;

"the sacred and divine Scriptures" or a matter of "faith."

[ThePainefulTruth]

"the sacred and divine Scriptures" or a matter of "faith."

All I'm trying to do is distinguish blind faith from reasoned faith. Think of it as differentiating between unbridled emotion vs. reasoned feelings. I don't disagree with any of you examples of blind faith in religion.