JW organization.

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:06 pm

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:44 pm

[Replying to post 179 by Elijah John]

Okay, so now we have seen the scriptural refences, what in your own words, do you understand by "Christian freedom"...

"Christian freedom is the freedom to ...." [over to you, this is the moment when you try to string a few of your own words together to finish the sentence I have started fro you]

Elijah John · Post by **Elijah John** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:05 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 179 by Elijah John]

Okay, so now we have seen the scriptural refences, what in your own words, do you understand by "Christian freedom"...

"Christian freedom is the freedom to ...." [over to you, this is the moment when you try to string a few of your own words together to finish the sentence I have started fro you]

I will answer, in spite of the condescension. And in spite of the fact that I have answered already with illustrations and examples.

Christian freedom is the freedom to love as Jesus taught, without being overly concerned about nit-picky rules and regulations. Such as your organization promotes.

Love fulfills the Law, and the will of Father YHVH.

Your organization promotes the Law of Love too, but has added rules of men and regulations and characterizes those as the will of God.

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:07 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 179 by Elijah John]

Okay, so now we have seen the scriptural refences, what in your own words, do you understand by "Christian freedom"...

"Christian freedom is the freedom to ...." [over to you, this is the moment when you try to string a few of your own words together to finish the sentence I have started fro you]

Moderator Comment
Hi JW,

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JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:13 pm

William wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
It's the individual's blood and no one else has the right to take it.

Then it is the individuals right to give their blood.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is not a person's right to do as they please, only that those of us that are guided by bible principles choose to exercise our right to obey bible law and principles.

JW

William · Post by **William** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:02 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
William wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
It's the individual's blood and no one else has the right to take it.

Then it is the individuals right to give their blood.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is not a person's right to do as they please, only that those of us that are guided by bible principles choose to exercise our right to obey bible law and principles.

JW

By all accounts, people are offering the argument that bible principles are open to debate and changes need to be made in order to evolve along with GOD rather than stagnate under old concepts of god from bygone eras.
So if the debate is "stay in the pond and suckle the milk" against "moving into the larger reality stream and swimming with bigger fish concepts", then so be it.

The bible is - if anything - an example of an evolving god, and to argue otherwise is simple to deny the progression therein. Some would rather lay aside such medium and let GOD do the talking, individual to individual, as he/she/it deems appropriate.

So while I understand your position on such matters, there is nothing within your argument which adds anything to such debate.

You argument from that position effectively is 'non-debatable' (or none negotiable if you'd prefer) because it comes from within the dogma of an organized religion which has rules which you personally feel okay about. That is fine of itself, but - as said - is not a subject of debate.

Therein no thing untoward is involved with anyone pointing that out.

The organisation you have given your life to 'suggests' that you don't give blood.
Jesus likely wouldn't have a problem with anyone choosing to give blood, but that is besides the point in relation to you and the organisation your serve.

Sure, no one has the right to take your blood, but obviously you have given the organisation (JW) the right to say that you don't have to give if you don't want to, based upon whatever 'laws' are interpreted in the ancient scripts you choose to follow after.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:05 pm

[Replying to post 185 by William]

Well I make the decision as to what I will or will not do with my body based on what I believe to be true in the bible. I have given my life to God and so what the bible says has a bearing on what I do with it. I'm sure you agree that I have the right to do that, no?

marco · Post by **marco** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:39 pm

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 163 by onewithhim]

Don't worry about it.

Moderator removed one-line, non-contributing post. Kindly refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to debate and/or simply express agreement / disagreement or make other frivolous remarks.

For complimenting or agreeing use the "Like" function or the MGP button. For anything else use PM.

William · Post by **William** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:50 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 185 by William]

Well I make the decision as to what I will or will not do with my body based on what I believe to be true in the bible. I have given my life to God and so what the bible says has a bearing on what I do with it. I'm sure you agree that I have the right to do that, no?

You have a right to do whatever you choose with your life.

You can believe the bible is 'the word of god' and 'speaks for god' and (when translation re that becomes necessary) to believe what others teach you about it.

You do not have the right to claim that the bible is the word of god, or that GOD doesn't, wouldn't' couldn't, shouldn't interact with the individual without the medium of the bible or for that matter any organised religion (the one you support or others) and that the bible is the final say on all things related to GOD, based on your beliefs about such matters.

Once you argue from the position of having such right as your beliefs afford you, that becomes debatable, especially if you do so on a public forum - one designed and promoted primarily for debate.

Any questions you fail to answer or otherwise skirt around, can be treated as a loss of argument, at least until such time as you either provide an answer or concede.

Merely claiming that you follow the bible does not in itself win you any argument or make your position that much stronger than anyone else.

I'm sure you can agree to that, no?

So now, JWs and you as a JW, have a rule regarding blood (as spoken of in the last few posts).

As such, do you (and the organisation general) have any issue with the idea that Jesus would have no problem with anyone giving blood?

If 'Yes' then please explain why this is so.

If 'No', then please explain why JWs put more weight and emphasis on the rules of the organisation that they do on what Jesus would say about the matter.

Thanks.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:53 pm

William wrote: You do not have the right to claim that the bible is the word of god...

Do I have the right to claim I believe the bible is the word of God?

In any case, Jehovah's Witnesses take the bible to be the final authority on matters of faith. We believe we have the right to do so and the right to say this in public. If saying so on this forum breaks any rules I will bow to the moderators indication.

source: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989239

I have already presented scriptural rationale for our position on blood; people are of course free to accept it or reject it as they wish, but that it is our position is a fact.

Why do Jehovah's Witnesses not accept blood transfusions?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 245#841245

JW

hoghead1 · Post by **hoghead1** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:57 pm

[Replying to post 171 by JehovahsWitness]

Quite the contrary. We know much about ancient cultural practices and we know many cultures did drink blood. Nobody had thought of blood transfusions back then, so the prohib9itiion is addressed specifically to eating and drinking blood, period. Today, modern medicine also tells us to abstain from drinking blood, ingesting blood via saliva or toothbrushes, etc., touching blood, as it contains many pathogens. However, modern medicine honors acceptable forms of blood transfusions.