JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 106 by JehovahsWitness]

No, come to think of it, I'm really not done at all. Fact is, the Watchtower Society is an anti-intellectual, anti-social cult, like Jonestown, Waco, scientology. Like all cults, it thrives by indoctrinating it members into believing the world is the enemy, all run by the Devil, so that the only place they feel safe is in the cult. And, like any cult, it managed to worm its way into the history books by hiding behind the First Amendment. But it can't hide from the eye of critical scholarly inquiry. It is the duty of all religious scholars, of which I happen to be one, to expose such cults as the destructive forces they really are in people's lives. And I'm up for doing that 24/7.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 110 by postroad]

Yes, but you have to remember you are dealing here with a notorious anti-social, anti-intellectual cult, actually one of the most hated of all religious cults. So you can well expect to hear all kinds of strange, delusional thinking.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 89 by polonius.advice]

I don't think that Jehovah'sWitness was saying that the size of an organization reflects its accuracy in doctrine and teachings. Jesus said that "FEW would be on the narrow road to life." (Matt.7:14).

Indeed I didn't at any time imply we were anywhere near the biggest religion nor do we aspire to be, I only said that we attribute our increase to Jehovah's blessing and that we continue to increase despite everyone knowing that JWs don't celebrate birthdays.

It evidently isn't broke so we see no reason to "fix" it.


JW

[polonius]

[Replying to post 89 by polonius.advice]

I don't think that Jehovah'sWitness was saying that the size of an organization reflects its accuracy in doctrine and teachings. Jesus said that "FEW would be on the narrow road to life." (Matt.7:14).

Indeed I didn't at any time imply we were anywhere near the biggest religion nor do we aspire to be, I only said that we attribute our increase to Jehovah's blessing and that we continue to increase despite everyone knowing that JWs don't celebrate birthdays.

It evidently isn't broke so we see no reason to "fix" it.


JW

RESPONSE: But you'll note that the JD increase "increase" in 2011 has been cut in more than in half in 2012. Perhaps God is telling us something. You think?

[onewithhim]

The most reliable bibles would be those which are prepared from the oldest extant copies of the originals in the original languages.

To the best of my knowledge, two popular bibles (newest translations) meet these criteria.

The New Revised Standard Version (Revised Edition) - prepared by of the World Council of Churches.(NRSVRE)

and

The New American Bible Revised Edition -Prepared by the USCC (Catholic) (NABRE)

These are virtually the same. In fact, there is a Catholic Edition of the NRSV.

I generally use the NRSV because it is more commonly available, but find the lengthy introductions and abundant footnotes of the NAB to be helpful.

Both versions are on-line.

You are right about the most reliable Bibles being from the oldest extant copies. The NAB is one of the best, and the New World Translation has been lauded as one of the best, if not the best. (Truth in Translation, Jason BeDuhn, pp.161-168, 2003.)

I have copies on my shelves of those versions you mention, plus many others.

I consider a version that totally eliminates the name of God as less reliable than one that includes His name in each of the 7,000 places that it appears in the original Hebrew/Aramaic text. That would mean that even the New American Standard Bible, which I usually quote from, is substandard, as well as the NRSV and the NABRE, the NAB itself, and just about every other version.

The Catholic Living Bible includes God's name in many places, and The Divine Name King James Bible has restored the Divine Name Jehovah 6,972 times (virtually all of the places it originally occurred). Young's Literal Translation of the Holy Bible also includes the Tetragrammaton (as "Jehovah") throughout the Old Testament.

Everything being considered, the New World Translation is the most reliable because it keeps the name of God where it should be, and it relies on the oldest copies of the Bible available in the original languages.


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[onewithhim]

http://www.ukapologetics.net/newworld.html

A CRITICAL LOOK AT THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BIBLE: THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION

by M. Kurt Goedelman
(Kurt Goedelman is director of Personal Freedom Outreach, A Christian research ministry in St. Louis, Missouri)

"The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (NWT) is the name of the Bible used worldwide by members of the Jehovah's Witness sect. The Watchtower Society claims this work to have been made directly into English from Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek languages."

"This translation, they claim, was made by "a committee of anointed witnesses of Jehovah," but the Society refuses to divulge the names and credentials of the men who comprised this committee."

"The reason cited is because the "translators were not seeking prominence for themselves." However, the fact is that the men who comprised this committee had no adequate schooling or background to function as skilled critical Bible translators."

Question: Is this true?

Address provided:
(The Association for Theological Studies | P.O. Box 290168 | Minneapolis, MN 55429)

No. That is silly. Is anyone up for proving me wrong?

We have seen adequate evidence here on this thread and other threads that the New World Translation has been given high marks for its accuracy in translation and meaning. So both sides of the issue have weighed in. Thus it becomes a non-issue. Both sides will cancel each other out. Let's go on to something else.


.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 92 by onewithhim]
You have got to be kidding me? If you are willing to accept that as valid there is nothing I could post that would convince you otherwise. I am simply dumbfounded.

No, I'm not kidding you, and if you don't agree with the part about Jesus being the FIRSTfruits of the resurrected chosen ones, you just don't understand what I am talking about. Otherwise you would give me your thoughts about why it doesn't matter, I guess, that Jesus is said to be the FIRST RESURRECTED BACK TO LIFE IN THE SPIRIT REALM, which heaven is. And he went back to heaven after 40 days after his resurrection "in the spirit." (IPeter 3:18; I Corinthians 15:45) No one else had been resurrected, out of the chosen ones that would rule with Christ in heaven. If you think it is important that Christ was the FIRST, then explain why you don't agree with what I posted.




<- you...you don't get it?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 89 by polonius.advice]

I don't think that Jehovah'sWitness was saying that the size of an organization reflects its accuracy in doctrine and teachings. Jesus said that "FEW would be on the narrow road to life." (Matt.7:14).

Indeed I didn't at any time imply we were anywhere near the biggest religion nor do we aspire to be, I only said that we attribute our increase to Jehovah's blessing and that we continue to increase despite everyone knowing that JWs don't celebrate birthdays.

It evidently isn't broke so we see no reason to "fix" it.


JW

RESPONSE: But you'll note that the JD increase "increase" in 2011 has been cut in more than in half in 2012. Perhaps God is telling us something. You think?

No. Why would you say that? Why does the RATE of increase show which religion is true? Satan is working hard to deter the work of Christ's true brothers on Earth, and if JWs slow up in their increase, it just shows that Satan is kicking bu**.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 117 by onewithhim]
You are absolutely correct that a irreconcilable conflict would exist as indeed many-irreconcilable conflicts do exist in scripture. But why not ignore this one rather than use such torturous misuse of the text? If the Saints were not raised to life then Christ also must have simply been spewed forth from his tomb to lead the procession of corpses as they all rolled down the hill as a public spectacle for the entertainment of the residents of Jerusalem.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 117 by onewithhim]
You are absolutely correct that a irreconcilable conflict would exist as indeed many-irreconcilable conflicts do exist in scripture. But why not ignore this one rather than use such torturous misuse of the text? If the Saints were not raised to life then Christ also must have simply been spewed forth from his tomb to lead the procession of corpses as they all rolled down the hill as a public spectacle for the entertainment of the residents of Jerusalem.

What do you say about Christ being the first to be resurrected to endless life?

That scripture that you seem firmly attached to contradicts that fact that appears in other places in the Scripture. I Corinthians 15:20: "But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the FIRST FRUITS of those who are asleep [in death]."(NASB)

I Corinthians 15:23:"But each in his own order: Christ the FIRST FRUITS, after that those who are Christ's at his coming."


The Scripture says that Christ is the first to come back to life, and then all of his co-rulers will be resurrected also, when he comes again. Do you disagree with these Scriptures?


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