In Matthew 22:41-46 we read...
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
So, whose Son is David's Lord YHWH?
Your thought please.... Thanks
Whose Son is David' Lord?
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Re: Whose Son is David' Lord?
Post #2the prophetic scripture that Jesus is refereing to is Psalms 110:14Pillars wrote:In Matthew 22:41-46 we read...
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
So, whose Son is David's Lord YHWH?
Your thought please.... Thanks
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. "
verse 2 "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. "
verse 3 "The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."
Now there are two instances of "lord" in verse 1. the first of which is "LORD" which is YHWH but the second is "Lord" which is Adonai. and the way the rest of that chapter reads is that Jehovah is speaking to Adonai which is the Messiah or Jesus.
the point Jesus was trying to get across to the pharisees is that Jehovah God is the Father of the Messiah, rather than David however at the same time through David as pointed out in other scriptures.
Post #3
I respectfully disagree... here's my take...
In John 8:53-55 we read the following exchanges between the pharisees and Jesus....
John 8
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is MY FATHER that honoureth me; OF WHOM YE SAY THAT HE IS YOUR GOD:
55 YET YE HAVE NOT KNOWN HIM; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Do you understand the implication of what Jesus had just told the Jewish Pharisees who were biblical scholars and authoritative of the Scripture at that time? He just told them that they have NOT known his Father -- of whom they claimed him to be their God!!!
How could that be possible when in fact, YHWH himself appeared unto their forefathers on several occasion in the Old Testament and introduced himself as their only God? Yet, Jesus rebuked them all and told otherwise, see!?
The answer is very simple -- for me at least - - Jesus is YHWH himself, the great I AM, the Son of the unknown Invisible God Father, of whom NO man hath seen nor knew of his NAME at this time.
Revelation 19
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; AND HE HAD A NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HE HIMSELF.
Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
God Bless
In John 8:53-55 we read the following exchanges between the pharisees and Jesus....
John 8
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is MY FATHER that honoureth me; OF WHOM YE SAY THAT HE IS YOUR GOD:
55 YET YE HAVE NOT KNOWN HIM; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Do you understand the implication of what Jesus had just told the Jewish Pharisees who were biblical scholars and authoritative of the Scripture at that time? He just told them that they have NOT known his Father -- of whom they claimed him to be their God!!!
How could that be possible when in fact, YHWH himself appeared unto their forefathers on several occasion in the Old Testament and introduced himself as their only God? Yet, Jesus rebuked them all and told otherwise, see!?
The answer is very simple -- for me at least - - Jesus is YHWH himself, the great I AM, the Son of the unknown Invisible God Father, of whom NO man hath seen nor knew of his NAME at this time.
Revelation 19
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; AND HE HAD A NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HE HIMSELF.
Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
God Bless
Post #4
no you really do agree...but the only thing you dont understand about the passage is that the pharisees themselves personally no more knew God than the next wolf in sheeps clothing...Jesus wasnt talking to the jewish people as a whole through out history but rather to the pharisees who were too self righteous to know God, and to the wicked generation of that day.4Pillars wrote:I respectfully disagree... here's my take...
In John 8:53-55 we read the following exchanges between the pharisees and Jesus....
John 8
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is MY FATHER that honoureth me; OF WHOM YE SAY THAT HE IS YOUR GOD:
55 YET YE HAVE NOT KNOWN HIM; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Do you understand the implication of what Jesus had just told the Jewish Pharisees who were biblical scholars and authoritative of the Scripture at that time? He just told them that they have NOT known his Father -- of whom they claimed him to be their God!!!
How could that be possible when in fact, YHWH himself appeared unto their forefathers on several occasion in the Old Testament and introduced himself as their only God? Yet, Jesus rebuked them all and told otherwise, see!?
The answer is very simple -- for me at least - - Jesus is YHWH himself, the great I AM, the Son of the unknown Invisible God Father, of whom NO man hath seen nor knew of his NAME at this time.
Revelation 19
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; AND HE HAD A NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HE HIMSELF.
Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
God Bless
Post #5
That is just based on your religious assumption which is not supported by the Scripture.JCRepresentitive wrote:no you really do agree...but the only thing you dont understand about the passage is that the pharisees themselves personally no more knew God than the next wolf in sheeps clothing...Jesus wasnt talking to the jewish people as a whole through out history but rather to the pharisees who were too self righteous to know God, and to the wicked generation of that day.4Pillars wrote:I respectfully disagree... here's my take...
In John 8:53-55 we read the following exchanges between the pharisees and Jesus....
John 8
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is MY FATHER that honoureth me; OF WHOM YE SAY THAT HE IS YOUR GOD:
55 YET YE HAVE NOT KNOWN HIM; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Do you understand the implication of what Jesus had just told the Jewish Pharisees who were biblical scholars and authoritative of the Scripture at that time? He just told them that they have NOT known his Father -- of whom they claimed him to be their God!!!
How could that be possible when in fact, YHWH himself appeared unto their forefathers on several occasion in the Old Testament and introduced himself as their only God? Yet, Jesus rebuked them all and told otherwise, see!?
The answer is very simple -- for me at least - - Jesus is YHWH himself, the great I AM, the Son of the unknown Invisible God Father, of whom NO man hath seen nor knew of his NAME at this time.
Revelation 19
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; AND HE HAD A NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HE HIMSELF.
Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
God Bless
Perhaps, you failed to understand what the Scripture is saying all along, therefore let me further explain and cite it to you - for your convenience...
Scripture says No man knew the name of Almighty God Father even to this date, until one overcometh in the end - only then the name would be written and revealed.
Look, learn and read:
Revelation 3
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
IF YHWH is the God Father himself, based on your religious assumption then Jesus is only pulling your legs -- promising to reveal the name of his God -- when it is already documented in the Scripture (OT) according to your belief, would this be the case? Unless of course, you already overcometh this world, have you?
While Jesus ALSO made a promise to reveal his new name (Rev. 3:12), the context regarding the name of his God does not state that it will be a new name, am I correct? Of course!
Ephesians 3
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,….
Revelation 19
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, THAT NO MAN KNEW, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Therefore, based on the above analogy, I stronly believe, YHWH is Jesus Christ himself, the Son of the unknown invisible God of whom also no man hath seen at anytime.
Post #7
k...your straying a bit from your original question which dealt primarily with psalms 110. so the best way for me to cover your new trends is to just state some things rather than address your issues.4Pillars wrote:That is just based on your religious assumption which is not supported by the Scripture.JCRepresentitive wrote:no you really do agree...but the only thing you dont understand about the passage is that the pharisees themselves personally no more knew God than the next wolf in sheeps clothing...Jesus wasnt talking to the jewish people as a whole through out history but rather to the pharisees who were too self righteous to know God, and to the wicked generation of that day.4Pillars wrote:I respectfully disagree... here's my take...
In John 8:53-55 we read the following exchanges between the pharisees and Jesus....
John 8
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is MY FATHER that honoureth me; OF WHOM YE SAY THAT HE IS YOUR GOD:
55 YET YE HAVE NOT KNOWN HIM; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Do you understand the implication of what Jesus had just told the Jewish Pharisees who were biblical scholars and authoritative of the Scripture at that time? He just told them that they have NOT known his Father -- of whom they claimed him to be their God!!!
How could that be possible when in fact, YHWH himself appeared unto their forefathers on several occasion in the Old Testament and introduced himself as their only God? Yet, Jesus rebuked them all and told otherwise, see!?
The answer is very simple -- for me at least - - Jesus is YHWH himself, the great I AM, the Son of the unknown Invisible God Father, of whom NO man hath seen nor knew of his NAME at this time.
Revelation 19
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; AND HE HAD A NAME WRITTEN, THAT NO MAN KNEW, BUT HE HIMSELF.
Ephesians 3:14-15
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
God Bless
Perhaps, you failed to understand what the Scripture is saying all along, therefore let me further explain and cite it to you - for your convenience...
Scripture says No man knew the name of Almighty God Father even to this date, until one overcometh in the end - only then the name would be written and revealed.
Look, learn and read:
Revelation 3
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
IF YHWH is the God Father himself, based on your religious assumption then Jesus is only pulling your legs -- promising to reveal the name of his God -- when it is already documented in the Scripture (OT) according to your belief, would this be the case? Unless of course, you already overcometh this world, have you?
While Jesus ALSO made a promise to reveal his new name (Rev. 3:12), the context regarding the name of his God does not state that it will be a new name, am I correct? Of course!
Ephesians 3
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,….
Revelation 19
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, THAT NO MAN KNEW, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Therefore, based on the above analogy, I stronly believe, YHWH is Jesus Christ himself, the Son of the unknown invisible God of whom also no man hath seen at anytime.
yes i agree with you 100% that Jesus is God the Father and that they are one in the same. its called the trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three in one which i fully support.
the point of Jesus mentioning psalms 110 to the pharisees to begin with was to point out a messianic prophecy that says the Lord "Adonai" is the Father. or else why would David call him Lord? Jesus bassically points out an old testament scripture that says He (Jesus) is the eternal God the Father ok? ok...
next is that all through out scriptual history, God is constantly revealing new names to His people based off of new covenants and bassically new start outs in life i.e the exodus... in exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." God declares His name as eternal self existant. a name that was not known to Abraham who knew God as Almighty (El Shaddai) or "strength" God points this out in exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." and yet was God known by them just not as that name...so in history we see that people have known God who is Jehovah or the Father...
now there is more messianic prophecy which points out the new covenant God would form through Christ in Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:" 32 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD:" 33 "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."
in jeremiah 23:6 "In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" God explains that there will be a new revealing of His name for the new covenant that He would establish through Christ.
there is only one God....not Jesus/YHWH and some other invisible God...just YHWY/Jesus there is not another "god" if there was another "god" that would be idolatry which God is a jealousy God and would not permit the worhisp of another...all through out history there has been one true God and He has stayed the same...only He has revealed to us some of His names based on some of His characteristics...i do agree with the other scriptures you have posted such as revelation and all that...it is all 100% accurate and they way it works out doctrinially is that the name to be revealed which no man knows, will be one of YHWH's new names that He will reveal to us and yet again most likely a new characteristic.
bottom line is its perfectly ok for God to have secret names which He hasnt told us yet...but it is not ok to have more than one True God
Re: Whose Son is David' Lord?
Post #8sorry for the double post but i forgot to clea rup regarding matthew 22:41.4Pillars wrote:In Matthew 22:41-46 we read...
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
So, whose Son is David's Lord YHWH?
Your thought please.... Thanks
first off in psalms 110:1 Davids "Lord"/"LORD" is both YHWH and Adonai.so the proper question for you to ask is "whose Son is Davids Lord Adonai?"
ne way u had said that one of my posts regarding matthew 22:41-46 is that its unfounded scriptually...well no it is isnt and here are the scriptures.
matthew 3:7 "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? "
matthew 12:34 (speaking of the phariesees) " O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."
matthew 22 the whole chapter (too much to post but bassically Jesus blasts the pharisees for being self righteous, and the people as a whole for being in rebelion
there is a ton more that point out that the pharisees didnt know God (not because God [the Father of Davids Lord] is unknowable, but because they were hard hearted and blind
Post #9
Once again, I respectfully disagree with your traditional religious assumption. Father and Son are entirely two different entity united as one - “echad” – collectively.JCRepresentitive wrote:k...your straying a bit from your original question which dealt primarily with psalms 110. so the best way for me to cover your new trends is to just state some things rather than address your issues.
No, it is not ok. In fact, David prophetic vision is still taking place to this date AFTER the resurrection of the Lord who is sitting at the right hand of his Father.JCRepresentitive wrote:the point of Jesus mentioning psalms 110 to the pharisees to begin with was to point out a messianic prophecy that says the Lord "Adonai" is the Father. or else why would David call him Lord? Jesus bassically points out an old testament scripture that says He (Jesus) is the eternal God the Father ok? ok...
..."Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." Psalms 110
Incidently, it destroys your trinity religious assumption of "one" (numeric) God. Now, you have two (numeric) God, literally speaking, based on the above text, correct?
But, the cited text did not say that Jesus’ God (his Father) will have a new name, did it say that? Please show us where on the cited verse you came to that conclusion - as you would like others to believe.JCRepresentitive wrote: there is only one God....not Jesus/YHWH and some other invisible God...just YHWY/Jesus there is not another "god" if there was another "god" that would be idolatry which God is a jealousy God and would not permit the worhisp of another...all through out history there has been one true God and He has stayed the same...only He has revealed to us some of His names based on some of His characteristics...i do agree with the other scriptures you have posted such as revelation and all that...it is all 100% accurate and they way it works out doctrinially is that the name to be revealed which no man knows, will be one of YHWH's new names that He will reveal to us and yet again most likely a new characteristic.
bottom line is its perfectly ok for God to have secret names which He hasnt told us yet...but it is not ok to have more than one True God
Read again...
Again the pressing issue for you now becomes the following question -- when was the actual fulfillment of the messianic prophecy took place? During the old testament or after the resurrection?4Pillars wrote: Revelation 3
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
While Jesus ALSO made a promise to reveal his new name (Rev. 3:12), the context regarding the name of his God does not state that it will be a new name, am I correct? Of course!
Here's another additional reference for your study.
Hebrews 1
8 But unto the Son he (God) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
v10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
v9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Now, tell our readers how many NUMERIC God (subjects) actually being mentioned on the above text - based on the Scripture– not on your religious assumption, please.
God Bless
