Why does Jesus die so quickly on the cross?

[Daddieslittlehelper]

Some people argue that Jesus was not on the cross long enought to actually have died as it takes days to die from cruxifiction.

Yet actually if you listen to what Jesus says: He says

John 10.17 The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.

And interestingly on the cross Jesus says just before he dies
John 19.30 Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

So it appears It was not the cross that killed Jesus actually he had the power to give up his life when ever he wanted to, and also take his life back up again also.

This certainly could explain why Jesus dies so quickly on the cross. As he could give up his spirit whenever he wanted to.

And it's interesting some say that Jesus says "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" To referrence the suffering servant but actually he is starting to sing the 22 psalm

1My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning?

2My God, I cry in the daytime, but you don't answer; in the night season, and am not silent.

3But you are holy, you who inhabit the praises of Israel.

4Our fathers trusted in you. They trusted, and you delivered them.

5They cried to you, and were delivered. They trusted in you, and were not disappointed.

6But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised by the people.

7All those who see me mock me. They insult me with their lips. They shake their heads, saying,

8"He trusts in Yahweh; let him deliver him. Let him rescue him, since he delights in him." Matt 27.42

9But you brought me out of the womb. You made me trust at my mother's breasts.

10I was thrown on you from my mother's womb. You are my God since my mother bore me. luke 1

11Don't be far from me, for trouble is near. For there is none to help.

12Many bulls have surrounded me. Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me.

13They open their mouths wide against me, lions tearing prey and roaring.

14I am poured out like water. All my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax; it is melted within me. (john 19.34)

15My strength is dried up like a potsherd. My tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth. You have brought me into the dust of death.

16For dogs have surrounded me. A company of evildoers have enclosed me. They have pierced my hands and feet.

17I can count all of my bones. They look and stare at me.

18They divide my garments among them. They cast lots for my clothing. (john 19.24)

19But don't be far off, Yahweh. You are my help: hurry to help me.

20Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dog.

21Save me from the lion's mouth! Yes, from the horns of the wild oxen, you have answered me.

22I will declare your name to my brothers. In the midst of the assembly, I will praise you. John 17.6

23You who fear Yahweh, praise him! All you descendants of Jacob, glorify him! Stand in awe of him, all you descendants of Israel!

24For he has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, Neither has he hidden his face from him; but when he cried to him, he heard.

25Of you comes my praise in the great assembly. I will pay my vows before those who fear him.

26The humble shall eat and be satisfied. They shall praise Yahweh who seek after him. Let your hearts live forever.

27All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to Yahweh. All the relatives of the nations shall worship before you.

28For the kingdom is Yahweh's. He is the ruler over the nations. matt 24.14

29All the rich ones of the earth shall eat and worship. All those who go down to the dust shall bow before him, even he who can't keep his soul alive.

30 Posterity shall serve him. Future generations shall be told about the Lord.

31They shall come and shall declare his righteousness to a people that shall be born, for he has done it.

Any thoughts?

[marco]

So it appears It was not the cross that killed Jesus actually he had the power to give up his life when ever he wanted to, and also take his life back up again also.

This certainly could explain why Jesus dies so quickly on the cross. As he could give up his spirit whenever he wanted to.

And it's interesting some say that Jesus says "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" To referrence the suffering servant but actually he is starting to sing the 22 psalm

You must surely gain full marks for originality. I have never heard it said - outside of one famous film - that people sing when they are on a cross. If Jesus had the power to end his suffering willingly and effectively take his own life, then that introduces a lot of interesting questions. If he could control things to that extent then he wasn't acting as a man, for the two thieves beside him were not in possession of such saving means.

If he could switch off the life process and just as easily switch it on again, then we are in high pantomime. It does seem strange that a healthy thirty-something died so fast. In fact it seems suspicious and casts doubts on the whole business.

[Cewakiyelo]

[Replying to Daddieslittlehelper]

It does not seem as he was ending his life abruptly. The idea that he died suddenly because of his power kind of negates the act of suffering.

"ather loves me because I lay down my life." That is saying... Father, I love you and have so much faith in you that I would die before I turn my face from you and reject you. Jesus, in his walk to his death, the suffering, is expressing the truth that no mater what they do to him he will not reject our Father. He is giving up his life so that he can be rewarded with LIFE. We each have the authority to lay down our life for God. When we are on our knees being called infidel, being told to convert to another path just to spare our lives, and we choose to loose our head instead we have used that authority.

If Jesus is showing God that no matter how much suffering he is faced with he will not waiver in faith he can not end his life suddenly because it is in essence saying I love you Father but this suffering is to much, so I quit and do this my way now. Jesus is all about "Your will be done" no my own. He would suffer until God allowed it to end.

There are many things that lead to more realistically probable causes of the swiftness of Jesus's death. The fact he was beaten severely and made to carry his cross for the distance he did, the brine water that was offered as a drink, and the spear thrust to his side all play a role. The loss of blood and sweat and depletion of energy stores leading to the crucifixion site would have begun to deplete and alter his electrolyte levels. The brine water would have shifted his electrolytes such that his dehydrated state would have worsened as the fluid from cells was pulled out into his vessels, by osmosis, only to be lost by his wounds. Then of course you have a spear thrust that drains of more fluids. These sort of fluid losses and electrolyte shifts lead to vascular collapse/shock as the volume of blood is no longer sufficient to carry enough oxygen to the body. To little oxygen and cell death of the heart occurs to the point of stopping.

Most of those whom were crucified did not have to endure the trauma before the crucifixion. The were sentenced, taken out and nailed up. They had little bleeding, They were not depleted of energy before hand. They died slowly as their lungs began to fill with their own fluids over a period of days.

We could say.... but it would be a stretch... but is always a possibility.. That God took mercy on Jesus by causing those that tortured Jesus along the way to his crucifixion to do so. We can ponder that perhaps God allowed that torture on the way so that he would more rapidly die and be spared the lengthy death on the cross.

[marco]

We could say.... but it would be a stretch... but is always a possibility.. That God took mercy on Jesus by causing those that tortured Jesus along the way to his crucifixion to do so. We can ponder that perhaps God allowed that torture on the way so that he would more rapidly die and be spared the lengthy death on the cross.

"God took mercy" implies that God's thought processes follow ours. He watches the suffering and then, in human fashion, is affected and shows mercy. Presumably God would have been in full possession of everything before it occurred.

To postulate God's allowing torture so that the increased brutality would hasten death is an amazing scenario. The word WHY flits around one's head.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Daddieslittlehelper]

You might like to do some research on how Jesus was executed, there is plenty of evidence to suggest he died, not on a two-beam cross but that he was nailed to a one beam upright stake.

As for the fact that Jesus could have miraculously saved himself there is little doubt he could have but his purpose was to come to earth to give himself up as a sacrifice, so to save himself (or appeal to his father to save him from death) would have been failure of his mission.

Why did he die so quickly? Because he had been greatly weakened by hours of torture and his body simply could not take any more.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[marco]

You might like to do some research on how Jesus was executed, there is plenty of evidence to suggest he died, not on a two-beam cross but that he was nailed to a one beam upright stake.

We haven't a word of physical description of the victim. After 2000 years finding the exact method by which he was crucified seems vain.

As for the fact that Jesus could have miraculously saved himself there is little doubt he could have but his purpose was to come to earth to give himself up as a sacrifice, so to save himself (or appeal to his father to save him from death) would have been failure of his mission.

It is quite amusing to hear about "mission failure" as though Jesus had set out on Apollo 13.

We have so successfully wrapped Christ in our own fictions, hopes and misunderstandings it is hardly surprising there are so many Christian sects, each screaming TRUTH.

[JehovahsWitness]

We have so successfully wrapped Christ in our own fictions, hopes and misunderstandings it is hardly surprising there are so many Christian sects, each screaming TRUTH.

Are you wishing to debate the veracity of scripture or indeed if Jesus was a historical figure? Please clarifiy because I thought I was posting in TD&D where that was not necessary. I ask because I was thinking that the discussion was on "Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority"

Jesus himself said he came to give his life in exchange for many and it was to that I was alluding. If you wish to debate the interpretation of said scripture, please present your own scriptural references in counterarguement. If you are actually here to debate whether scripture is fiction, please clarify as I do not want to take the discussion off topic.

Clarification appreciated,

JEHOVAH'S WITENSS

[marco]

We have so successfully wrapped Christ in our own fictions, hopes and misunderstandings it is hardly surprising there are so many Christian sects, each screaming TRUTH.

Are you wishing to debate the veracity of scripture or indeed if Jesus was a historical figure? Please clarifiy because I thought I was posting in TD&D where that was not necessary. I ask because I was thinking that the discussion was on "Christian theology with the basic assumption that the Bible can be used as a primary reference without the need to defend its authority"

You are making the correct assumption about the discussion but seemingly misunderstanding the point I was making. I assume I have explained myself imperfectly.
In your explanation of why Christ died so rapidly you have introduced many suppositions and this caused me to say that we have wrapped Christ etc. Indeed I wasn't, in this instance, attacking Scripture, but remarking on the variety of explanations you produced regarding Christ's early demise. Is this not what we are discussing?
You say:

"Jesus himself said he came to give his life in exchange for many and it was to that I was alluding. "

While this is fine, it is not in any way a discussion of Christ's swift death. Perhaps we should both be a bit more careful over relevance. I shall.

[JehovahsWitness]

I assume I have explained myself imperfectly..

That's okay, no worries.

Indeed I wasn't, in this instance, attacking Scripture, but remarking on the variety of explanations you produced regarding Christ's early demise.

Why did he die so quickly? Because he had been greatly weakened by hours of torture and his body simply could not take any more.

As you can see from the above, I said that he died quickly due to the hours of torture he had endured. This is a scriptural fact since it is ourlined in gospel that Jesus underwent a scorging prior to his death as well as suffered physical abuse during his illegal night trial.

You say:

"Jesus himself said he came to give his life in exchange for many and it was to that I was alluding. "

While this is fine, it is not in any way a discussion of Christ's swift death. Perhaps we should both be a bit more careful over relevance. I shall.

If you carefully re-read my post you will notice it was in reply to "daddieslittlehelper" the OP. In his post he raises the issue of whether Christ could have saved himself, stating

So it appears It was not the cross that killed Jesus actually he had the power to give up his life when ever he wanted to, and also take his life back up again also.

It was that point that I was addressing. In short I was addressing several different points raised in the original question. There is nothing in MY post to suggest that the ultimate reason for his death influenced the speed of his death. I believe DLH (the OP) is making that point but you will have to take that up with him not me.

In short, MY post, to the OP was perfectly relevant to the points he made. May I suggest while you are reviewing the relevance of your answers to also add the need to be careful who is speaking to whom.

JW

[marco]

[quote="JehovahsWitness"]
Yep - you are perfectly correct. I was distracted by your details of possible method of crucifixion and what you said about Christ's mission. But these presumably didn't speed up death.

My apologies .