"Spiritual" Marxism?

[Haven]

Recently, the Dalai Lama (the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism) came out as a Marxist. Marxism, as most know, is a materialistic, atheistic, quasi-religious system of economics and philosophy based on the working class ("proletariat") collectively destroying--typically through violent means--the owning class ("bourgeoisie"). It was the ideology behind communism and all the atrocities it brought. It was the ideology of Lenin, Stalin, and Mao.

Earlier, the Dalai Lama claimed that "kindness [was his] religion." This new statement supporting Marxism seems to contradict that, as Marxism is anything but a philosophy of kindness or compassion.

Debate questions: Can Marxism be spiritual? Can it be kind? Is Marxism compatible in any way with kindness or spirituality?

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 8 by Haven]

That's way too much metaphor for it to be quasi-religious.
You may as well say religion is quasi-everything-else.

What does the UK have? Scripture (law), prophets (prime ministers), chosen people (MPs), devils (criminals), infidels (tax and other evaders), an "end times" (a disestablishment of parliament following the perfection of the law), etc.

By Marx, I think he got it. Philosophy is the belief system and religion is the practice that follows from that belief system. Those who are UK patriots believe in the UK system and live in accordance with it. The latter is religion. In fact, the UK even has an official theology and the queen is it's spiritual leader. This comparison is harder to make in these United States, due to the First Amendment. However, the principle still applies. US patriotism is a belief system and the practices that follow, ie the pledge of allegiance, the flag, various forms of registration, paying "voluntary" income taxes, etc., are all religious rites, otherwise referred to as the responsibilities of citizenship.

[No Robots]

Socialism and Christian spirituality are inseparable. As Harry Waton puts it:

Jews understood by the Kingdom of Heaven nothing else than a kingdom of God which will be realized on this earth, and which mankind will enjoy while they live. There is no doubt that this was the idea of the Kingdom of Heaven which the Jews always entertained, and which they still entertain. This being so, then when Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of Heaven he meant just what the Jews meant. In other words, Jesus actually meant the Kingdom of Heaven to be realized on this earth, and to be enjoyed by mankind while they live. Since this idea of Jesus is the soul and essence of Christianity, it clearly follows that the followers of Jesus perverted and distorted the idea of Jesus, and Christianity was and is only a perversion and distortion of the idea of Jesus. Since Jesus thought only of a Kingdom of Heaven to be realized on this earth, it follows that Christianity must identify itself with the material world, and cooperate with the revolutionary forces that work for the realization of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth for living humanity.

Marx stands as the man who channeled the prophetic spirit into science.

[Haven]

Welcome to the forum!

Socialism and Christian spirituality are inseparable. As Harry Waton puts it:

Jews understood by the Kingdom of Heaven nothing else than a kingdom of God which will be realized on this earth, and which mankind will enjoy while they live. There is no doubt that this was the idea of the Kingdom of Heaven which the Jews always entertained, and which they still entertain. This being so, then when Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of Heaven he meant just what the Jews meant. In other words, Jesus actually meant the Kingdom of Heaven to be realized on this earth, and to be enjoyed by mankind while they live. Since this idea of Jesus is the soul and essence of Christianity, it clearly follows that the followers of Jesus perverted and distorted the idea of Jesus, and Christianity was and is only a perversion and distortion of the idea of Jesus. Since Jesus thought only of a Kingdom of Heaven to be realized on this earth, it follows that Christianity must identify itself with the material world, and cooperate with the revolutionary forces that work for the realization of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth for living humanity.

Marx stands as the man who channeled the prophetic spirit into science.

Interesting perspective. Christianity, at least here in the US, is usually associated with conservatism and hyper-capitalism, but I definitely think that there can be a socialistic interpretation of the religion (Acts describes early Christians "holding all things in common."). Still, socialism in and of itself isn't Marxism.

I do have a question for you though: as I'm sure you know, Marx was an atheist and anti-theist, so how do you see him as connected to a pro-Christian "prophetic spirit?"

[No Robots]

Glad you asked, Haven. Let's start with something from the man himself:

Thus the union with Christ imparts an inner exaltation, comfort in suffering, calm trust, and a heart full of love for humankind, open to everything noble, everything great, not out of ambition but for the sake of Christ. Thus the union with Christ imparts a joyousness which the Epicurean in his frivolous philosophy and the deep thinker in his most arcane science have vainly tried to snatch at, but which the soul can attain only through its unrestrained and childlike Union with Christ and God, which alone makes life more beautiful and exalted. "Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged [John 16:11]."

This is admittedly a youthful school composition, but it is nevertheless indicative of the author's trajectory from exalted spirituality to applied social science. This trajectory is a continuum.

[Haven]

Glad you asked, Haven. Let's start with something from the man himself:

Thus the union with Christ imparts an inner exaltation, comfort in suffering, calm trust, and a heart full of love for humankind, open to everything noble, everything great, not out of ambition but for the sake of Christ. Thus the union with Christ imparts a joyousness which the Epicurean in his frivolous philosophy and the deep thinker in his most arcane science have vainly tried to snatch at, but which the soul can attain only through its unrestrained and childlike Union with Christ and God, which alone makes life more beautiful and exalted. "Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged [John 16:11]."

This is admittedly a youthful school composition, but it is indicative of the author's trajectory from exalted spirituality to applied social science. This trajectory is a continuum.

The early Marx is really interesting: before he became a dialectical materialist and "Marxist," he had some really interesting ideas (this was one of them). I think if he stuck to philosophy rather than economics Marx would be remembered as one of the 19th century's great thinkers. It's too bad that most focus has been on his writings on capitalism and the disastrous social movement (communism) they spawned.

[No Robots]

Marx's ideas, like those of Christ, are prey to misunderstanding and misuse. I see nothing but good in the central idea that man must strive to make the Kingdom of Heaven here on Earth.