Why does America put so many people in prison?

[Furrowed Brow]

It is oft said America has 5% of the world population but has 25% of the world's prison population. Why does America imprison more of its population than anywhere else? Here is a comparative chart from wiki. It is a little out of date but the trend is still true today.

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Are Americans more tolerant of imprisonment as a punishment because of a religious ethic that demands retribution, or do America have more criminals because of a lack of religion? Is this a sign of social collapse? Is this a result in the collapse of family values? Has this anything to do with a privatised prison industry lobbying for more punitive sentencing? Is it because of the war on drugs? Is this due to social inequality? Is it down to racism? Is this just down to more people in America making more bad choices than elsewhere? Or is this down to effective policing? Is the American legal system unjust or just highly efficient? Is the graph a sign that America is doing things right and its the rest of the world that is not up to speed? Why is America able and willing to imprison more people?

[Strider324]

So, to answer your question, yes, it's easy to be the worlds leading jailer when you make everything a crime.

I'd like to drill into that. Why the urge to legislate so heavily. Who benefits? Is America actually a nicer safer place as a result? After spending all that money on prison facilities does America get better results in terms of quality of life of those who manage to stay our of prison? I suspect America put more people in prison because a. there is profit in it and b. a large part of the population don't seem to care. And I wonder if the root of that not caring about the size of the prison population is an ethic formed by religious attitudes that hankers to punish people that do not behave the same and do not meet with a narrow world view. Is a greater willingness to punish deviancy from conventional norms the root of a lack of concern? A root that traces back to religion? Maybe....? Also wonder if this is just a sign of authoritarianism as China, Russia and Cuba are also near the top of the list.

My expertise is in human sexuality. Certainly, the US is still living with (or down, as it may be) the legacy of the Puritan ethic that created generations of early Americans with stultifyingly repressed attitudes toward sexuality - the result still showing in the wide range of sexual activities we demonized by codifying them into law. It is only recently that states have begun to uncriminalize the so-called 'sodomy laws that banned such egregious and unholy behavior as..... having oral sex with your own spouse.

So yes, religion does share responsibility for the fact that the US considers a LOT of things to be 'crimes' punishable by imprisonment that other industrialized countries do not.

Who benefits? The pious christian who ostensibly gets the satisfaction of seeing 'evil' people punished according to the archaic laws of a vengeful and prudish deity - who just happens to hate the same activities they do....

[Furrowed Brow]

My expertise is in human sexuality. Certainly, the US is still living with (or down, as it may be) the legacy of the Puritan ethic that created generations of early Americans with stultifyingly repressed attitudes toward sexuality - the result still showing in the wide range of sexual activities we demonized by codifying them into law. It is only recently that states have begun to uncriminalize the so-called 'sodomy laws that banned such egregious and unholy behavior as..... having oral sex with your own spouse.

So yes, religion does share responsibility for the fact that the US considers a LOT of things to be 'crimes' punishable by imprisonment that other industrialized countries do not.

Who benefits? The pious christian who ostensibly gets the satisfaction of seeing 'evil' people punished according to the archaic laws of a vengeful and prudish deity - who just happens to hate the same activities they do....

Is there a connection between that kind of underlying Puritanism and a rejection of things that symbolise loss of self control and things new and foreign? I'm wondering if poppy had been a traditional American crop instead of cotton whether America would ever have started a war on drug wars.

I read somewhere that films edited for the European market up the sex content and tone down the violence , whilst for the American market it is the other way around. They tone down the sex but more violence is ok for American audiences. If this is true does that psychological asymmetry link to the need to punish deviancy? I'm thinking of those old 1980s horror moves where the "slut" or the couple having sex are the ones that get sliced up first by the masked serial killer.

[Baconsbud]

You might also want to look at the effects privatizing the prison systems has had on our prison population. I know once you start looking at the amounts of money involved you can see why some groups would want to keep as many things criminalized as they can.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 11 by Furrowed Brow]

I would have to second the puritanical movement as being a motivator for the overzealous legal system. You can look back to the prohibition of alcohol which was largely lead by puritanical societies and groups. Specifically it is the social conservatives that press these issues fueled by the religious right.

The goal of social conservatism is to legislate laws that will protect core family values in a community. The trick here is what do we as a society deem as core family values. Which brings us to the religious right portion. Since the majority of social conservatives in the United States also happen to be part of the Religious Right those core family values are not dictated from empirical evidence but religious doctrine. So you have concepts that all sins are equal mixing with legislating family values and you get ridiculous laws like the 3 strike rule. Because using drugs petty theft grand larceny manslaughter rape are all equally bad to the society in the minds eye of the religious social conservative.

[Strider324]

You might also want to look at the effects privatizing the prison systems has had on our prison population. I know once you start looking at the amounts of money involved you can see why some groups would want to keep as many things criminalized as they can.

Yes, I mentioned earlier to 'follow the money'. Our prison system is now a huge commercial operation, and its growth and sustainability depends on a steady supply of 'criminals'. Gee, I wonder why they don't just make alcohol and tobacco illegal - there's another 80 million paying residents right there.....

[Furrowed Brow]

You might also want to look at the effects privatizing the prison systems has had on our prison population. I know once you start looking at the amounts of money involved you can see why some groups would want to keep as many things criminalized as they can.

Yes, I mentioned earlier to 'follow the money'. Our prison system is now a huge commercial operation, and its growth and sustainability depends on a steady supply of 'criminals'. Gee, I wonder why they don't just make alcohol and tobacco illegal - there's another 80 million paying residents right there.....

This seems to be the logical consequence of privatising prisons like the logical end point of privatise medicine is to have us all dependent on medication. I have to check but I believe Americans are also the most heavily medicated.

[Strider324]

You might also want to look at the effects privatizing the prison systems has had on our prison population. I know once you start looking at the amounts of money involved you can see why some groups would want to keep as many things criminalized as they can.

Yes, I mentioned earlier to 'follow the money'. Our prison system is now a huge commercial operation, and its growth and sustainability depends on a steady supply of 'criminals'. Gee, I wonder why they don't just make alcohol and tobacco illegal - there's another 80 million paying residents right there.....

This seems to be the logical consequence of privatising prisons like the logical end point of privatise medicine is to have us all dependent on medication. I have to check but I believe Americans are also the most heavily medicated.

I'm medicated right now, so.....

[Strider324]

My expertise is in human sexuality. Certainly, the US is still living with (or down, as it may be) the legacy of the Puritan ethic that created generations of early Americans with stultifyingly repressed attitudes toward sexuality - the result still showing in the wide range of sexual activities we demonized by codifying them into law. It is only recently that states have begun to uncriminalize the so-called 'sodomy laws that banned such egregious and unholy behavior as..... having oral sex with your own spouse.

So yes, religion does share responsibility for the fact that the US considers a LOT of things to be 'crimes' punishable by imprisonment that other industrialized countries do not.

Who benefits? The pious christian who ostensibly gets the satisfaction of seeing 'evil' people punished according to the archaic laws of a vengeful and prudish deity - who just happens to hate the same activities they do....

Is there a connection between that kind of underlying Puritanism and a rejection of things that symbolise loss of self control and things new and foreign? I'm wondering if poppy had been a traditional American crop instead of cotton whether America would ever have started a war on drug wars.

I read somewhere that films edited for the European market up the sex content and tone down the violence , whilst for the American market it is the other way around. They tone down the sex but more violence is ok for American audiences. If this is true does that psychological asymmetry link to the need to punish deviancy? I'm thinking of those old 1980s horror moves where the "slut" or the couple having sex are the ones that get sliced up first by the masked serial killer.

Don't forget the black guy. He's ALWAYS the first idiot in the movie to go TOWARDS the moaning sound in the next room.....

Yes, I think the connection is fairly clear. "We're more righteous than other nations, and we need to prove it by punishing more people for more things - especially crimes of sexual 'deviance' like an 18 year old boy having oral sex with his 17 year old girlfriend. THAT boy needs to be labeled a Sexual Predator for the rest of his life."

If Puritanical obsession is not the root of this ideology, I don't know what is.

[Strider324]

I think it important as well to recognize the role of racism in America. Peonage was outlawed by the federal government, yet this did not stop southern businesses from acquiring black freemen, falsely claiming they owed money, carting them off to a local magistrate who (for a small fee) would quickly try and convict the ex-slave for......whatever..... and charge him fees - which of course he could not pay. Oh? Well, you are now the property of this man, who has gladly paid the "fines" - who now has the right to work you to death, whip you, or sell you.

Gee, kinda sounds like.....slavery?

This was occuring as last as 1890, decades after slaves were 'freed'. Many Americans are ignorant of this dark chapter, and have little conception of how putting tens of thousands of black Americans into debt servitude allowed the practice of slavery to continue.

Nor are they aware of the common practice in the south after the Civil War of trumping up bogus charges against black Americans in order to imprison them - as many as 19,000 of them - where they are then 'leased' to local plantation owners, mining companies, etc., where they are then worked literally to death with no social cost. At least slave owners had an interest in keeping their slaves alive and healthy - the economic value of slaves actually worked to keep them (relatively) safe. But if a leased prisoner died (which occured at the rate of 40% per month), you simply buried him and leased another prisoner - at 20% the cost of a free man.

So now you have black men - and women...and children...being imprisoned at record numbers, completely out of proportion to their population, receiving 12 and 15 year sentences (which conveniently covered their expected work life) for such heinous crimes as playing dice, or punching a guy at a bar. Further, records indicate many were imprisoned for the crime of being 'uppity'.

So.... the image whites begin to develop about blacks is one where they are simply a criminal class, inferior in character. This stain on America exists yet today.

[Goat]

I think it important as well to recognize the role of racism in America. Peonage was outlawed by the federal government, yet this did not stop southern businesses from acquiring black freemen, falsely claiming they owed money, carting them off to a local magistrate who (for a small fee) would quickly try and convict the ex-slave for......whatever..... and charge him fees - which of course he could not pay. Oh? Well, you are now the property of this man, who has gladly paid the "fines" - who now has the right to work you to death, whip you, or sell you.

Gee, kinda sounds like.....slavery?

This was occuring as last as 1890, decades after slaves were 'freed'. Many Americans are ignorant of this dark chapter, and have little conception of how putting tens of thousands of black Americans into debt servitude allowed the practice of slavery to continue.

Nor are they aware of the common practice in the south after the Civil War of trumping up bogus charges against black Americans in order to imprison them - as many as 19,000 of them - where they are then 'leased' to local plantation owners, mining companies, etc., where they are then worked literally to death with no social cost. At least slave owners had an interest in keeping their slaves alive and healthy - the economic value of slaves actually worked to keep them (relatively) safe. But if a leased prisoner died (which occured at the rate of 40% per month), you simply buried him and leased another prisoner - at 20% the cost of a free man.

So now you have black men - and women...and children...being imprisoned at record numbers, completely out of proportion to their population, receiving 12 and 15 year sentences (which conveniently covered their expected work life) for such heinous crimes as playing dice, or punching a guy at a bar. Further, records indicate many were imprisoned for the crime of being 'uppity'.

So.... the image whites begin to develop about blacks is one where they are simply a criminal class, inferior in character. This stain on America exists yet today.

that is why , of course, the prison penalty for crack is so much higher than for using pure cocaine.