Islam v. Islam

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:44 pm

To this outsider the Islamic world seems to be fighting at least two internal wars;
one is between Conservative Islamism and Secularist Modernism the other between Shia and Sunni. Islam is not targetting the west - we are just caught in the crossfire of their internal wars. We probably suffer less than one might expect given the level of our interference in the Islamic world.

The level of violence shows that Islamism has been driven to extremes to hang on against reformism. I don't think that hard-line Islamism has much future. It is simply not suited to the modern world - it cannot survive in a world where the internet and MTV connect people and inform and educate them. We see in Egypt that Muslims today certainly do not want to abandon Islam, but they do not want it in the extreme form represented by the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood.

I wouldn't say the 'moderation' of Islam is imminent, nor even certain in the foreseeable future. I am saying that much of the violence we see is due to the conflict between conservatism and modernism in Islam.

The other conflict between Shia and Sunni I think can be viewed as a proxy war between Shia Iran and Sunni Saudi Arabia, each striving to dominate the Islamic world. It is hard to see how we can have any influence over that conflict - at least not for the better.

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:22 pm

I must be slower than usual today because I don't get the reference...
Ah. Got it.

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:32 pm

keithprosser3 wrote: I must be slower than usual today because I don't get the reference...

There is a game that is played quite often at churches, where you have to fill out a card with a number/letter combination.. The first person to get all the number filled out under a letter yells BINGO... So when someone yells out BINGO, it is a resounding 'We got a winner' sign of agreement.

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:34 pm

I got it in the end. Depressing.

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:36 pm

I got it in the end.

Dantalion · Post by **Dantalion** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:35 am

keithprosser3 wrote: I got it in the end.

The word Islamophobic disgusts me because it gets tossed out at the least criticism expressed towards anything related to Islam or Muslims. Like we're actual racists or something.

Also it's just a dumb term, do people even realize what a phobia is ? It's an anxiety disorder, extreme irrational fear.

if we're all so shockingly afraid of other cultures/belief systems where's the word for irrational fear for the Inuit ? Buddhists ? Jaines ? Scientology ?

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:11 am

xxxxxx

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:12 am

Like we're actual racists or something.

A lot of so-called Islamophobes are 'actual racists'. Not all by any means, and I am willing to accept that you are not a racist. But be careful who you team up with because the EDL - for example - are a re-boot of the racists skinheads of the BNP and NF with a new battle-cry, which they usually forget and revert to 'Pakis out' after a few beers.

Dantalion · Post by **Dantalion** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:53 am

keithprosser3 wrote:
Like we're actual racists or something.
A lot of so-called Islamophobes are 'actual racists'. Not all by any means, and I am willing to accept that you are not a racist. But be careful who you team up with because the EDL - for example - are a re-boot of the racists skinheads of the BNP and NF with a new battle-cry, which they usually forget and revert to 'Pakis out' after a few beers.

As far as I'm concerned groups like the EDL are just gangs of violent punks.

However, if you allow me a little devil's advocate, once could argue that when/if violent Islamic riots break out in the western world, those groups will be our first line of defense.
Thugs will be thugs, and if I had to make a choice between a anti-Islam thug and a radical Islamic one, srry but that's an easy choice to make.
Ofc I'd rather not have any thugs at all, but that's not the world we currently live in.

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:53 am

if I had to make a choice between a anti-Islam thug and a radical Islamic one, sorry but that's an easy choice to make.

If you feel that way about the EDL you should not be surprised if ordinary Muslims feel the same about their own extremists. Polarisation is a vicious spiral.

keithprosser3 · Post by **keithprosser3** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:59 am

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