Adoption/Abortion

[Ooberman]

One of the key components to any policy that limits abortion is the increase in adoption.

Let's open this up to any comments about the general issue - related to both - but I will share a small side comment.

Married couples are known to provide more stable households for raising children, and increasing the amount of married couples increases the amount of families able to provide stable households for adopted children.

Thus, allowing gay marriage provides a perfect solution for so many orphans.

In fact, it's one of the things I am so proud of my sister and her partner for. They have tried to adopt for years, and after a few horror stories (people hiding severe psychological issues from them, simply to unload the kids), they have finally adopted two children: one older, one an infant.


It seems to me the solutions are in front of us but religious and cultural mores keep us from doing the right thing: allowing gay marriage, increasing adoption, decreasing abortion (by keeping it legal), and saving the world...

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 128 by dianaiad]

Please provide this medical research. Thank you

.
Sorry can't help you as it is on my other computer which has died and gone to the tekkie heaven. I am sure if you Google it you will find everything you need to know.

Being autistic, there are a lot of things I don't remember but when I do, I never forget. This was one of them.

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Matthew 6:23 But if your eye is evil, all your body is dark. If, then, the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

My friend, you made the claim. You say that you had it...therefore you should be able to 'google' it yourself again far more easily than I can. Yours is the burden of proof. Telling me that I have to look it up for myself....

No.

yours the claim, yours the job of supporting it. May I gently suggest that you not make this claim, or even allude to it, until you have something to support it? Take a few moments and do the search again.

I would very much appreciate it. I don't have the time, or the energy, to do this, nor is it fair of you to ask it.

[10CC]

[Replying to post 128 by dianaiad]

Please provide this medical research. Thank you

.
Sorry can't help you as it is on my other computer which has died and gone to the tekkie heaven. I am sure if you Google it you will find everything you need to know.

Being autistic, there are a lot of things I don't remember but when I do, I never forget. This was one of them.

Straight out of the watchtower.

[wotsupdoc]

[Replying to post 130 by Goat]

Well, someone has been listening to a bunch of hooey. Let's see you come up with a science source that says that the body shuts down and a woman can't get pregnant from rape. Show a link to this 'medical research', or withdraw your claim.

I am not going to repeat myself just to satisfy the whims of an atheist.

[wotsupdoc]

[Replying to post 131 by dianaiad]

I would very much appreciate it. I don't have the time, or the energy, to do this, nor is it fair of you to ask it

I have a good laugh (is that permissible moderator) at people who think they have the right to order people around on this forum.

What I know I know because I have bothered to research it. You are welcome to do the same as I am not in the habit of doing other people's homework.

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Psalm 2:4 In heaven the LORD laughs as he sits on his throne, making fun of the nations.

[wotsupdoc]

[Replying to post 132 by 10CC]

Straight out of the watchtower.

Watch tower is that?

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Psalm 3:6 Ten thousand enemies attack from every side, but I am not afraid.

[wotsupdoc]

[Replying to post 132 by 10CC]

Straight out of the watchtower.

Watch tower is that?

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Psalm 3:6 Ten thousand enemies attack from every side, but I am not afraid.

[wotsupdoc]

[Replying to post 132 by 10CC]

Straight out of the watchtower.

Watch tower is that?

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Psalm 3:6 Ten thousand enemies attack from every side, but I am not afraid.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 131 by dianaiad]

I would very much appreciate it. I don't have the time, or the energy, to do this, nor is it fair of you to ask it

I have a good laugh (is that permissible moderator) at people who think they have the right to order people around on this forum.

What I know I know because I have bothered to research it. You are welcome to do the same as I am not in the habit of doing other people's homework.

this is not a class. This is not 'homework.' this is a debate forum, where one of the most basic rules is this:

5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence. Opinions require no support, but they should not be considered as valid to any argument, nor will they be considered as legitimate support for any claim.

(you will find this, Rule #5, at the top of this subforum. In fact, you'll find it posted all over the forum as a whole.)

In other words, it's not ME refusing to do my homework. It's you. You made the claim. Please support it. I wasn't, at least at first, challenging you or calling you a liar or being confrontational. I was simply asking for the references; it sounded interesting.

It's not my homework to do here. It's not my job to find the supporting evidence for a claim you made. It's yours.

Please do it or retract your claim, which I believe you have made more than once.

[wotsupdoc]

[Replying to post 137 by dianaiad]

Please do it or retract your claim, which I believe you have made more than once.

Rape Related Pregnancy: How Common is It?

Some statistics report that conception as a result of rape occurs in less than one percent of cases, while other studies indicate higher figures such as 4.7%.

How likely is it to fall pregnant after being raped?

A large study in America found that 5% of rapes resulted in a pregnancy. The majority of these pregnancies were in young women who had been raped by a known and often related person.

The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.

A lot of people are citing the Holmes et al (1996) paper that found a 5% pregnancy rate among rape survivors from 12 to 45 years of age. This is a great study that performed several telephone interviews with 4008 participants over three years to determine rates of rape (413 individuals experienced 616 completed rapes, a lifetime incidence of over 13% in this sample) and rates of pregnancy from rape (20 were reported from 19 individuals, or 5%).

Studies have found approximately 5% of rapes result in pregnancy.

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Psalm 9:10 Everyone who honors your name can trust you, because you are faithful to all who depend on you.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 137 by dianaiad]

Please do it or retract your claim, which I believe you have made more than once.

Rape Related Pregnancy: How Common is It?

Some statistics report that conception as a result of rape occurs in less than one percent of cases, while other studies indicate higher figures such as 4.7%.

How likely is it to fall pregnant after being raped?

A large study in America found that 5% of rapes resulted in a pregnancy. The majority of these pregnancies were in young women who had been raped by a known and often related person.

The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.

A lot of people are citing the Holmes et al (1996) paper that found a 5% pregnancy rate among rape survivors from 12 to 45 years of age. This is a great study that performed several telephone interviews with 4008 participants over three years to determine rates of rape (413 individuals experienced 616 completed rapes, a lifetime incidence of over 13% in this sample) and rates of pregnancy from rape (20 were reported from 19 individuals, or 5%).

Studies have found approximately 5% of rapes result in pregnancy.

You have not mentioned where you got this information, but nevermind, I found it here. This is a rather good study, with fairly accurate numbers. The link I gave you is just to the abstract, which you have pretty much copy/pasted.

There's only one problem with it:

Not mentioned in the abstract is the conclusion it makes (which is why THIS study was controversial when it was done) that pregnancy as a result of rape is actually higher than pregnancy as a result of consensual sex. There are many reasons for this...I suspect one of them is that women who engage in consensual sex are more likely to have used birth control pills or an IUD...and the men are more likely to use condoms.

The actual numbers of pregnancy as a result of consensual sex run about 2.5%, according to the CDC and other governmental agencies; here's an abstract of an examination and comparison of the rates.

You also need to read the study you quoted a bit more closely.

A 2003 study using data from the United States National Violence Against Women survey found that the rate at which women get pregnant after an incident of sexual assault is more than double that of a single act of consensual sex. In this report, published in the journal Human Nature, the per-incident rape-pregnancy rate was 6.42 percent, and as high as 7.98 percent with statistical correction. Of women having consensual sex, the per-incident pregnancy rate was 3.1 percent.

I don't know where you GOT this idea that rape does not produce pregnancy at the same rate that acts of consensual sex do, but it is simply not supported by any study or statistics; quite the opposite.

.............and that makes sense. People who engage in consensual sex, unless they are specifically attempting the have a baby, generally tend to exercise some method of birth control, even if is the Catholic approved one of watching the woman's ovulation cycle and timing sex for the 'safe' times.

Rapists don't care, he victims aren't prepared, and pregnancy ends up being twice as likely as a result. Indeed, this idea that rape doesn't result in pregnancy is a truly nasty one, implying, as it does, that any woman who does get pregnant as a result of rape wasn't REALLY raped; she must have 'asked for it,' or 'enjoyed it' or something. I personally find that idea abhorrent: right up there with blaming the victim because she wore the wrong clothes, or walked down the wrong street, or didn't fight hard enough, or didn't yell loud enough, or didn't die.

I'm very conservative, politically. I'm also very religious...pro-life and anti-abortion in most cases. However, I'm not going to stand by and allow anybody to make a claim as ludicrous as this one is without saying something.

In my view, when rape results in pregnancy, the woman who sees that pregnancy through is beyond a heroine to me. It would be hard. I could...I think, because I honestly cannot see where the baby is in any way to blame for the rape. I figured, way back when it was actually possible for it to happen to me (the pregnancy, not the rape...women my age get raped), that I would look at a baby as the unintended blessing. However, I never had to put that decision into play, so I don't REALLY know how I would have felt. I hope I would not have changed my mind.

What I do feel is this: the man involved, if the woman can't handle carrying the baby to term, is guilty of murder as well as rape and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The mother may have to choose her own life and sanity over that of the child, but the man is the one who put that child in harm's way, and he should suffer the consequences.

One thing the woman does NOT need is for anyone to look at her askance and blame HER for the pregnancy because if she was pregnant, somehow it wasn't really rape.

So stop it. That idea is not only abominable and unfair, it's absolutely wrong...and proven to be wrong.