Sexuality & Orientation: A question.

[marketandchurch]

This is a question I am very curious about, vis-a-vis the Christian/Muslim/Jew crowd. But atheists are welcome to chime in as well. Do you think sexuality is fixed?

If you think sexuality is fixed, what is your own personal explanation for the existence of other sexualities? Are there several possibilities vis-a-vis orientation, for the human creature? And by fixed nature, what do you believe is the strength of that rigidity?

Do you think it is somewhat of a spectrum wherein there are most of us, who have a fixed heterosexual orientation, a small group who have a fixed homosexual orientation, and an even tinier portion who are "confused," have multiple sexual identities, or no sexual identity at all?

In other words, please explain your view of the matter in full, and I would love to just get a cross-section of where Christians/Muslim/Jew are on the matter. It is incredibly helpful, because the premise we hold will frame the way we approach the issue of same-sex marriage.

Feel free to expand this to the greater Gay-Marriage debate if you wish, so long as it relates to gender, sexual orientation, and its affects on the society at large.

[mitty]

[Replying to post 341 by charles_hamm] So what, I prefer to believe the testimonials of the millions who disagree. But there are some who even believe that Jesus magically produced 600 litres of quality wine from water.

Your point with the wine from water is... I believe that nobody has proven that He didn't.

And nobody has proved that pigs can't fly. And if Jesus could transmute oxygen atoms into the carbon atoms in ethanol, why didn't Jesus teach the alchemists how to transmute lead into gold and thus avoiding their unsuccessful life-time's work:whistle:

Why would He? It seems to me you are comparing apples and oranges.

So he was more interested in getting hopelessly drunk with his boozey mates. Fair enough, I guess he had his priorities right as others commented on (Matt 11:19).

The 'others' you talked about were acting like children according to the verses preceding 11:19. They had also complained that John the Baptist did not eat or drink. They sound like a bunch of children to me.

So what if they thought that John was nuts and that Jesus was a drunkard, that's all part of the variation of people types in a community. There are also slick tongued preachers who sell after-death "salvation to the gullible, and people who sell snake oil and wrinkle cream. And all those rackets are no different to the mafia rackets, particularly the churches and monsters like John Calvin who also tortured and murdered people.

[charles_hamm]

Your point with the wine from water is... I believe that nobody has proven that He didn't.

And nobody has proved that pigs can't fly. And if Jesus could transmute oxygen atoms into the carbon atoms in ethanol, why didn't Jesus teach the alchemists how to transmute lead into gold and thus avoiding their unsuccessful life-time's work:whistle:

Why would He? It seems to me you are comparing apples and oranges.

So he was more interested in getting hopelessly drunk with his boozey mates. Fair enough, I guess he had his priorities right as others commented on (Matt 11:19).

The 'others' you talked about were acting like children according to the verses preceding 11:19. They had also complained that John the Baptist did not eat or drink. They sound like a bunch of children to me.

So what if they thought that John was nuts and that Jesus was a drunkard, that's all part of the variation of people types in a community.

So what if they were liars and whiners, that part of the variation as well.

[mitty]

[Replying to post 360 by charles_hamm]

Then why would the writers of Matt 11:19 and Luke 7:34 even bother to include those observations which are consistent with the boozey wedding feast and particularly if you still insist that Jesus poofed up an extra six hundred litres of grog above that which had already been catered for.

[mitty]

Indeed... While Jesus was imparting wisdom, he apparently forgot to tell us what we could do to avoid cancer, avoid mental illness, avoid war, which political system was most advantageous, whether we should use birth control or not, etc...


Instead he gives us bland platitudes.

One mention of bacteria, or how to make aspirin, or SOMETHING would have gone a long way in establishing his credibility.

One mention of the Oriental flea could have saved hundreds of millions of people, yet, instead, his representatives used it to scare people into religion.

I'm sorry, if Jesus WAS God, he was a major dick.

Exactly. If he could transmute 600 litres of water into a quality wine for personal selfish use then he could have easily eliminated polio & malaria etc and been a very wealthy man by transmuting lead into gold.

[charles_hamm]

[Replying to post 360 by charles_hamm]

Then why would the writers of Matt 11:19 and Luke 7:34 even bother to include those observations which are consistent with the boozey wedding feast and particularly if you still insist that Jesus poofed up an extra six hundred litres of grog above that which had already been catered for.

It might have been included to illustrate that no matter what Jesus did, He was not going to please all of the people, kind of like on this forum.

[mitty]

Indeed... While Jesus was imparting wisdom, he apparently forgot to tell us what we could do to avoid cancer, avoid mental illness, avoid war, which political system was most advantageous, whether we should use birth control or not, etc...


Instead he gives us bland platitudes.

One mention of bacteria, or how to make aspirin, or SOMETHING would have gone a long way in establishing his credibility.

One mention of the Oriental flea could have saved hundreds of millions of people, yet, instead, his representatives used it to scare people into religion.

I'm sorry, if Jesus WAS God, he was a major dick.

So telling the world how to avoid eternal damnation was not enough? I guess He probably considered telling people how to go to Heaven more important than explaining how to get over a headache.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe He was more worried about providing people with a way to Heaven than a quick fix to a temporary problem?

Where's the material evidence to back up that ink and paper conjecture? Why is selling after-life "salvation" any different to any other snake-oil salesman or wrinkle cream salesman or other rackets, and the jury is still out about the Jesus story.

[mitty]

[Replying to post 360 by charles_hamm]

Then why would the writers of Matt 11:19 and Luke 7:34 even bother to include those observations which are consistent with the boozey wedding feast and particularly if you still insist that Jesus poofed up an extra six hundred litres of grog above that which had already been catered for.

It might have been included to illustrate that no matter what Jesus did, He was not going to please all of the people, kind of like on this forum.

Particularly if they were moderate drinkers or teetotalers. And I wonder if his boozey mates appreciated the super hangovers and alcohol poisoning after guzzling down that extra 600 litres of quality grog which I guess would have added at least another $20,000 to a wedding bill in today's terms.

[Baz]

Any idea how many guests?




.

[mitty]

Any idea how many guests?




.

If the extra 600 litres of transmuted water was only 10% of the cheap plonk originally catered for, and each drunken guest guzzled down only 1 litre of grog, then the number of wedding guests was 6600. If, however, each drunken guest guzzled down 10 litres then there were only 660 guests, or 66 guests if each consumed 100 litres. Either way, the discounted cost for the grog today would be about $66,000 and the wedding planners would charge $660,000 for it on their bill, rounded up to $1,000,000.

[charles_hamm]

Indeed... While Jesus was imparting wisdom, he apparently forgot to tell us what we could do to avoid cancer, avoid mental illness, avoid war, which political system was most advantageous, whether we should use birth control or not, etc...


Instead he gives us bland platitudes.

One mention of bacteria, or how to make aspirin, or SOMETHING would have gone a long way in establishing his credibility.

One mention of the Oriental flea could have saved hundreds of millions of people, yet, instead, his representatives used it to scare people into religion.

I'm sorry, if Jesus WAS God, he was a major dick.

So telling the world how to avoid eternal damnation was not enough? I guess He probably considered telling people how to go to Heaven more important than explaining how to get over a headache.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe He was more worried about providing people with a way to Heaven than a quick fix to a temporary problem?

Where's the material evidence to back up that ink and paper conjecture? Why is selling after-life "salvation" any different to any other snake-oil salesman or wrinkle cream salesman or other rackets, and the jury is still out about the Jesus story.

The evidence is the word of God written in the Bible. The jury is only out temporarily in my opinion.